Driving myself crazy! Another hard clear coat question

[Justin at Final Inspection]

Alright guys something has to give here lol!

Some of you may remember my other thread asking about the hard GM clear coat on mainly black.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/104271-hard-rocks-gm-clear.html

So I ran into a bit of difficulty again with a new black GMC 3500 Denali. The truck had 3000mi on it and was in decent shape although dirty but still decent. Due to the size of the truck I agreed to do it at the clients shop. Plenty of space but really dark. I used my husky 5000k LED on a tripod for lighting.


So my plan was to one step it and hit it CSL. I had most of the weekend to work on it. So my test spot was with Essence, orange BOSS pad and my g21. I got awesome correction but it was leaving a hazy look to the paint under my light. Now normally I would pull it outside in direct light to see what I am dealing with. Unfortunately I had another thing going against me and that was mother nature. It was raining all weekend non stop. So no way to check my work outside which I really hate.

So in order to try to find a one step to remove most small defects and finish I tried an array of combinations. From my 3401 with different pads and polishes, to my g21 and they all either left hazing or didn`t remove enough defects.


The biggest shock was when I tried my 3401 with a black pad and m205 and I actually got holograms! WTH!?!?? I fought for over an hour trying to come up with something. I ended up using my original test plan. My g21, orange boss pad and Essence. Then followed it up with my 7424, black pad and Essence again. Seemed to work the best but still wasn`t perfect IMO.

I am really wondering if I was fighting my lighting and what I was seeing wasnt something I would see outside.

I went ahead and coated it and called it good. My client is a contractor so the black truck with be on job sites and getting dirty in no time. But I am still wrapping my head around this!

Alright guys I need some help here!!!! I know people gave me suggestions for cutting hard paint but trying to finish this stuff is pretty damn tough and I have polished a fair bit of vehicles. These new black GM are going to be the death of me!!!!!

[Jeremy1976]

How is your technique? Arm speed, pressure? Product age? Did you shake it well? Pad condition? Etc. Not trying to criticize, but I am guessing technique is playing a role.

Different vehicles and paint hardness, along with other factors such as temperature and humidity, will play a vital roll in altering your technique.

That's why it is essential to do test spots. Keep at it until you find the perfect combination. Then follow up with the rest of the vehicle.

Best wishes!

[Justin at Final Inspection]

How is your technique? Arm speed, pressure? Product age? Did you shake it well? Pad condition? Etc. Not trying to criticize, but I am guessing technique is playing a role.

Different vehicles and paint hardness, along with other factors such as temperature and humidity, will play a vital roll in altering your technique.

That's why it is essential to do test spots. Keep at it until you find the perfect combination. Then follow up with the rest of the vehicle.

Best wishes!



I forgot to mention that I did try deferent pressure, slow speed and a medium speed. Pads are relatively new and are clean. Trust me no criticism is being taken here lol. I agree that something with my technique may be the culprit but its just very odd how this clear reacts.

[GSKR]

Sometimes lighting is overkill.what you see by lights you won't see outside sometimes.my go to products on hard paint is either 105 or griots correcting Creme,or fg 400 followed by speed.95 percent of the time it's those products that work for me.I had a new vw bug now that's hard paint.she went to pronto wash in Tampa and the guy used a pot scrubber on the hood and clear film bra.I had to go with cave man compound as Mike p would put it,then finish down with griots twins.clear bra was a goner.

[GSKR]

Forgot to mention ,carwash guy was removing bugs with a agressive sponge.She was sick to death looking at it.So I got her all fixed up and flawless .

[Justin at Final Inspection]

Sometimes lighting is overkill.what you see by lights you won't see outside sometimes.my go to products on hard paint is either 105 or griots correcting Creme,or fg 400 followed by speed.95 percent of the time it's those products that work for me.I had a new vw bug now that's hard paint.she went to pronto wash in Tampa and the guy used a pot scrubber on the hood and clear film bra.I had to go with cave man compound as Mike p would put it,then finish down with griots twins.clear bra was a goner.

Yeah even my m205 was hazing the paint with a finishing pad or at least in the lighting I have it was showing it.

[dlc95]

Did you have the washer installed in the g21?

Going by the Rupes philosophy, they engage the antinspin feature in order to reduce backplate spin. In their testing, this reduces the chance for marring, and holigrams in the finish.

There is the chance the PC wasn't able to remove what the g21 put into the paint as well, with the black finishing pad. Maybe something like an orange, or white pad, with Essence would have got you there in one step.

[Justin at Final Inspection]

Did you have the washer installed in the g21?

Going by the Rupes philosophy, they engage the antinspin feature in order to reduce backplate spin. In their testing, this reduces the chance for marring, and holigrams in the finish.

There is the chance the PC wasn't able to remove what the g21 put into the paint as well, with the black finishing pad. Maybe something like an orange, or white pad, with Essence would have got you there in one step.

Ya know that's a good thought! I do run the washer mod on my g21.

[LSNAutoDetailing]

Few things from the post...
- Temp and humidity have been crazy in North East, especially over the weekend. The hazing could have been the temp diff between the pad & cooling of the sheet metal.

- Also, I'm not certain the AIO with Orange would have been the best combo. In this case I would have just used Boss Correcting Cream with a White BOSS Pad. I've found that the White BOSS pad is the best a quick correction and leaves a glossy defect free finish, specifically on GM's. I actually like it better than the Boss MF Pads.

- 205 with a black pad (finishing pad?) The pad is so soft, and 205 is so abrasive, I can see that happening. I probably would have used the BOSS Orange or BOSS Yellow for 205.

IMO, I think it was a combo of things, temp, humidity, lighting, product and pad choice. I too tried 105 yesterday and abandoned it after my test spot. I went with Pinnacle Advanced Compound and had much better results.

[Justin at Final Inspection]

Well I was able to go look at the truck outside today since the sun finally decided to come out. In the day light it looks pretty nice. The client will be happy. I will say that there was a little bit of haze I saw.

I guess having an eye has its downfalls lol. I did speak with a fellow acquaintance and very respected detailer and he gave me a few tips for future use.

Here are the pictures.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/camaro00/IMG_20161003_132904424_HDR_zpsfbmgw4vh.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/camaro00/media/IMG_20161003_132904424_HDR_zpsfbmgw4vh.jpg.html)

If I got right up on the fender I could see a small amount haze. Not sure if this picture caught it.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/camaro00/IMG_20161003_132852890_HDR_zps3xzxceaf.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/camaro00/media/IMG_20161003_132852890_HDR_zps3xzxceaf.jpg.html)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/camaro00/IMG_20161003_132645190_HDR_zpsbygqmgom.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/camaro00/media/IMG_20161003_132645190_HDR_zpsbygqmgom.jpg.html)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/camaro00/IMG_20161003_132450617_zpsmj3qwwdk.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/camaro00/media/IMG_20161003_132450617_zpsmj3qwwdk.jpg.html)

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g173/camaro00/IMG_20161003_132438526_zpsk2gs2hsa.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/camaro00/media/IMG_20161003_132438526_zpsk2gs2hsa.jpg.html)

[Eric@CherryOnTop]

So what were the tips the other guy gave you?

Right off the bat, I think the biggest factor to the haze you saw initially was the Essence. I've found it works well but it has a very short buffing cycle and it needs to be removed right away or else the SiO2 in it hardens. It's "finicky" as it were. It's weird about the GM clear issues you are having, maybe they changed paint processes lately because I used to be able to do a one step on dark GM paint with Menz FG400 in a Flex 3401 with an orange Hybrid pad and be LSP ready. That's a pretty stout cutting combo.

If there was a haze with the orange pad I might have gone one pad softer and changed the polishing process, 3 passes with no pressure on the machine, let the orbit do all the work. As soon as the Essence is clear it's done. It's diminishing so if you go beyond the buffing cycle it becomes just pad doing the work.

Either way, the pictures look really good, I can't personally make out the haze in the fender shot. Like you said, the client probably won't notice the same defects your trained eye would so all's well that ends well.