do i need a rupes or flex

[Bierman]

Whats the cutting power of a rupes or flex compared to a rotary? Is a flex or rupes as dummy proof as a GG polisher? Currently I only have a gg random orbital and it just does not have the cutting power im looking for. Is a rupes or flex a waste of $? should i just buy a rotary and get good with it? soooo many questions..

[WaxMaster1]

If the GG6 doesn't have the cutting power you're looking for, I say get the FLEX with the 5" Hybrid pads. Your Griot is a great and versatile tool. The only rotary I have in my arsenal is my FLEX PE-8.

[emmjay]

Flex and 5" hybrids as WaxMaster1 said.

Everyone has their own opinions so you will probably get a ton of replies for both sides.

Flex is awesome because there are no restrictions with it, does not need no washer mods, specific pads, polishes etc. It's just straight up badass and versatile.

I love my flex and have considered getting a rupes to compliment it but a few things stop me:

1. Price
2. No forced rotation
3. No small pads (flex accepts up to 4" if careful)
4. Limitations when it comes to the "right" pads and polishes - I don't want restrictions, I want versatility
5. Flex is built like a tank
6. Flex can be used with any pad + polish combo - Rupes is very temperamental.


Now...take into account...these are my observations from reading hundreds of post....so let me add "IMO". Others will definitely chime in with their opinions and for and against.

Mike recently said the 3401 has been officially named "The Beast" , and that is for a good reason.

One of the 100's of posts asking the same question:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/103326-what-buy.html#post1405796

[dcjredline]

FLEX hands down. Have you read the multitude of threads on the 2 machines? There is a TON of info on here for you to learn the + and - of each.

[VISITOR]

the flex is like the best of both (rotary & DA) worlds and will only stop when you want it to. if you are considering a long throw DA.. take a look at the G15/21, it would a great companion to the GG6 you already have...

[idriveblackcars]

I love my Rupes. I wouldn't think about replacing it. And it finishes like no other machine, that's really what sold me.

My personal cars don't ever get out of control where I need the strongest tools to correct.

Plus their customer service is second to none.

[TTQ B4U]

Flex 3401 here and wouldn't change from it. Should have bought one way sooner than I did.

[dlc95]

The Rupes is a free spindle machine, like the gg6.

If the GG6 isn't cutting it for you, I can only imagine you'll have problems with a Rupes tool for the same reason(s) - whatever that is.

To that point, the 3401 might be the one to look at.

[Mike Phillips]

Whats the cutting power of a rupes or flex compared to a rotary?



No where near as close.

With a rotary buffer, a wool cutting pad, an aggressive compound, even a Caveman Compound, you could literally grind all the paint off of a car.

Neither the FLEX nor the RUPES will do this.

With a wool pad and an aggressive compound the FLEX 3401 will remove paint faster than any free spinning tool and you won't experience any pads stalling like you will with ANY free spinning tool.

I show the FLEX 3401 in my boat detailing book for doing one-step detail jobs to oxidized boats with a wool pad and an aggressive one-step cleaner/wax because boats have lots of curves and corners on the top side that would cause any free spinning tool to stall out.

I show the RUPES BigFoot 21 for creating a show car finish on the hull or flat sides of a boat because my experience is it will finish out better than any other tool


http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/587/300_5_book.jpg



Apples to Oranges
Trying to compare the FLEX 3401 to the RUPES BigFoot 21 is comparing apples to oranges. They are both great tools but it's really a case of using the right tool for the job.

The rotary buffer takes the must muscle to use and control. This is in the context of buffing out entire vehicles, not standing by the side of a car and buffing out the flat, easy to buff hood. Been there and done that for a huge part of my life, I know that which I speak of.

I tell guys if they want to be great with a rotary buffer they should also be working out at a gym to keep their upper back muscles, shoulder muscles, arm muscles, hand muscles and leg muscles in great shape because you'll use all of these to control and use a rotary buffer.






Is a flex or rupes as dummy proof as a GG polisher?



I'd say yes. I'd say the weak link of these types of tools is the user.





Currently I only have a gg random orbital and it just does not have the cutting power im looking for.

Is a rupes or flex a waste of $?



Neither tool is a waste of money, if the tool doesn't work for the type of detailing a person does then they chose the wrong tool for them and their detailing needs.


The FLEX 3401 will work with just about any pad and brand of compounds, polishes and cleaner/waxes that use great abrasive technology.

The RUPES polishers are ENGINEERED and designed as a SYSTEM.

If you look at the title of my RUPES how-to book I chose each word in the tile carefully, specifically and purposefully.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/587/300_4_book.jpg



Questions like you're asking come up all the time and my advice, for what it's worth, goes like this,


If you're planning on purchasing a RUPES polisher, then plan on purchasing the RUPES system. This means, purchase,

The RUPES polisher
The RUPES pads
The RUPES products

AFTER you master the RUPES SYSTEM then, if you want to try different pads and products with their tool go for it and if you run into trouble, that is if you are not getting the same CONSISTEN and GREAT results you can achieve using the RUPES SYSTEM then at least you know how to RECOVER.







should i just buy a rotary and get good with it? soooo many questions..



I use the rotary buffer when I want to remove a lot of paint fast. By this I mean,

I use the rotary buffer when I want to remove defects fast.

After the defects are removed I switch over to ANY dual action orbital polisher to do the follow-up steps to ensure a hologram free finish. That is unless I'm purposefully buffing out a car with a rotary buffer for the purpose of trying to finish out hologram free with only a rotary buffer.


One more piece of advice... for what it's worth...

If you choose to get a rotary buffer and you do in fact plan on doing a LOT of car detailing using a rotary buffer, then invest the money and get a FLEX PE14.

It's worth it.


:)

[Craddock]

I show the FLEX 3401 in my boat detailing book for doing one-step detail jobs to oxidized boats with a wool pad and an aggressive one-step cleaner/wax because boats have lots of curves and corners on the top side that would cause any free spinning tool to stall out.



I can't quite comprehend this.

I am looking to purchase a rupes or flex soon. I can not imagine anything other than a rotary for removing oxidation on a boat. For that matter I didn't plan on using which ever one I purchase on gelcoat even for finishing.

Now I am confused.

I can only afford one at moment and also need a dedicated 3" tool.

I have been doing boats but am doing more cars now.

I struggled on a 2007 or 8 red mustang last week. I had a rotary with but no wool and only UC. Owner loved it but very hard clear that I didnt expect and was not satisfied but ran out of daylight.

Now I read the flex will remove oxidation from gelcoat? With a cleaner/Polish?

I use a product that removes 400 scratches from fresh gel and still get out sandpaper more than I want to.

I realize this was probably just for a demonstration and that normally your spinning a wheel but I am intrigued. I dont make purchasing decisions easily to begin with.


:)

[rmagnus]

I show the FLEX 3401 in my boat detailing book for doing one-step detail jobs to oxidized boats with a wool pad and an aggressive one-step cleaner/wax because boats have lots of curves and corners on the top side that would cause any free spinning tool to stall out.







I can't quite comprehend this.

I am looking to purchase a rupes or flex soon. I can not imagine anything other than a rotary for removing oxidation on a boat. For that matter I didn't plan on using which ever one I purchase on gelcoat even for finishing.

Now I am confused.

I can only afford one at moment and also need a dedicated 3" tool.

I have been doing boats but am doing more cars now.

I struggled on a 2007 or 8 red mustang last week. I had a rotary with but no wool and only UC. Owner loved it but very hard clear that I didnt expect and was not satisfied but ran out of daylight.

Now I read the flex will remove oxidation from gelcoat? With a cleaner/Polish?

I use a product that removes 400 scratches from fresh gel and still get out sandpaper more than I want to.

I realize this was probably just for a demonstration and that normally your spinning a wheel but I am intrigued. I dont make purchasing decisions easily to begin with.




Simplified; boats are best done by rotaries and wool pads. I'd choose the Flex 14-2 rotary and Black TufBuf wool pads. For most cars the perfect tool is the DA polisher. I'd choose the Flex 3401. I use the same wool pad and foam pads on the 3401. If I was restricted to just one buffer it would be the 3401 hands down the most versatile. I don't do gel-coats but I bet the 3401 and wool pads would be up to the task easily. I just don't see how you could go wrong with the 3401, it does grunt and finish work as well just modify your pads and polishes.

[dennis hiip]

I've been using the 1st generation GG for ages and I'm waiting for the new Flex 15mm long throw. I like the idea of being able use my pads and products. Also, German quality appeals to me. I own 2 Mercedes.

[Mike Phillips]

I can't quite comprehend this.

I am looking to purchase a rupes or flex soon. I can not imagine anything other than a rotary for removing oxidation on a boat. For that matter I didn't plan on using which ever one I purchase on gelcoat even for finishing.

Now I am confused.




Just to note, my ORIGINAL ANSWER was in the context of answering a question for the person that started this thread.

I have no idea what you want or what you're working on since you just joined this discussion.







I can only afford one at moment and also need a dedicated 3" tool.

I have been doing boats but am doing more cars now.

I struggled on a 2007 or 8 red mustang last week. I had a rotary with but no wool and only UC. Owner loved it but very hard clear that I didnt expect and was not satisfied but ran out of daylight.



I didn't really understand the above?

You had a rotary buffer but NO wool pad? So you cut with a foam pad? And Meguiar's Ultimate Compound --> UC


What type of foam pad?

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and a foam CUTTING pad should remove anything you WANT to remove on a daily driver.

Scratches that a foam cutting pad and a rotary buffer don't remove might be deeper than you want to remove?

Is the car a daily driver? Or are you prepping a show car for display?

Does this Mustang have the FACTORY clearcoat? If so factory clear is thin so tread carefully when it comes to buffing out daily drivers with factory clearcoats and deep scratches.

I cover this topic in my 3-day classes in detail but the big picture is you need to be practical and sometimes you have to educate the owner what is and what is not possible.







Now I read the flex will remove oxidation from gelcoat? With a cleaner/Polish?



LIGHT to medium oxidation. Again, my answer above wasn't about detailing boats it was about explaining what a gear-driven orbital will do compared to a free spinning orbital AS COMPARED to a rotary buffer.

If you want to talk about buffing out boats I'm down with that but maybe start your own dedicated thread. :)







I use a product that removes 400 scratches from fresh gel and still get out sandpaper more than I want to.

I realize this was probably just for a demonstration and that normally your spinning a wheel but I am intrigued. I dont make purchasing decisions easily to begin with.


:)


In my boat book I divide boats into 4 categories and explain IN-DEPTH how to approach the condition of each boat with the tools that will work for each boat category condition.

For boats in category #4 I recommend two options.

1: Cut hard with a rotary buffer.

2: Wetsand first, then cut with a rotary buffer.


The only time you would use a FLEX or a RUPES for boats in category #4 would be AFTER the rotary buffer step.


This is the most in-depth book I've ever written and I go into great detail how to use pretty much all the tools we talk about here on the forum and even how to address each category by hand.

In order answer your question without causing you any confusion it would be much better if you started a dedicated thread and asked specific questions. Then myself and others will be happy to provide specific answers that are in CONTEXT with the question asked.


:dblthumb2:

[Mike Phillips]

I can't quite comprehend this.

I am looking to purchase a rupes or flex soon. I can not imagine anything other than a rotary for removing oxidation on a boat. For that matter I didn't plan on using which ever one I purchase on gelcoat even for finishing.



Sorry for any confusion, my point was when buffing out boats, unlike cars, you have a lot of different shaped areas to buff that you could use either a rotary buffer OR or FLEX 3401 if the boat doesn't have SEVERE oxidation.


If you tried to use ANY free spinning orbital polisher, and the word ANY would include the larger RUPES orbital polishers, (which I assumed were the models you would be considering), any of the free spinning tools would have a difficult time maintaining pad rotation when SHOVED into all the different shaped areas on the top side or cap of a boat.

Top side detailing is very different than hull detailing.

And just to note, SEVERE oxidation would include any boat left alone to oxidize for a few years or longer or any boat that it's plain to see needs to have the deep oxidation sanded off first.


Hope that helps...

And again, my original answer was in the context of the questions asked by the OP.


:)

[Craddock]

Thank you Mike. Understand 100%. In regards to Mustang I only had a megs purple cutting pad with and didn't relalize until on job. I did explain the desire to preserve clear. More to that for another thread with pics when I figure out that better. My pics in single stage thread this morning looked like crap. Anyway. No need to get anymore of topic. Thank you and sorry for the off topic