Water Spots on Single Stage Paint

[72fordgts]

I have an vintage car with a single stage paint job. It was last repainted probably about 20 years ago with a single stage paint. I recently washed the car and afterwards I had a ton of hard water spots on the paint from where the sun dried the car before I could chamois it dry. Now the car is covered with numerous noticeable water spots that I cannot seem to remove. The car is bright red so, the spots are very noticeable especially under florescent lighting. I did have some old hard water stains on the paint before, but they were from many years ago when the car sat outside in the rain (it's always garaged now), but there seems to be A LOT more spots now.

I tried using a clay bar, a cleaner wax and a buffer with some Meg Ultimate Compound. But nothing seems to have worked. I am thinking the Ultimate compound is not very abrasive as there seems to be very little paint transfer when I am working in the paint. I am a relative amateur compare to people here when it comes to auto detailing, so I really don't no what the best option is to try to restore this paint. Does anyone have any advice?

[Sizzle Chest]

You could see what a dedicated water spot remover will do for you: something like CarPro Spotless or the like. If that does not work, you may need to 'up' the aggressiveness of your compounding/polishing.

Post up some pics, and I hope this helped you out some!

[72fordgts]

Thanks for the response, it was helpful. If I wanted to step up the aggressiveness, what compound should I use? I know I can get the professional grade Meguiar's at a local body shop supply store. I was thinking of trying Mirror Glaze M01 Medium Cut compound? Would this not be more aggressive than Ultimate Compound? Or there is M105, but is this too aggressive?

Also I am using a rotary buffer not a DA. It's just a 7" unit from Canadian Tire (Simoniz) but I only have micro fibre and foam pads. I don't think there are any cutting pads available for this unit. I wil try to get some pics tomorrow. I know that paint is a single stage (non-metallic red) and I believe it may be enamel as I am pretty certain it's not lacquer.

[72fordgts]

I worked at it more today and I think I got some success. Originally I only tried to clay a small area and it didn't seem to do much so I didn't do the problem areas (hood, roof, trunk) as I had recently clayed the car. I did the car today and it seemed to help reduce the spots (or at least the new ones) quite a bit. I came across the article on restoring single stage paints on this website and the suggestion was to use Meguiar's #7 and do the 12-24 hour soak. Would this be a good idea for my paint? I am not opposed to working it by hand vigorously over using the machine.

I attached a photo of the spots on the paint. This was before I clayed this area.

51437

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[57BORNTORUN]

Although not single stage but some heavy water spots on this car we did back in June.Some good info. for you.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-thursday-night-detailing-classes/101947-1955-chevy-bel-air-%2415-000-00-custom-paint-job-how-remove-water-spots.html

[Mike Phillips]

I have an vintage car with a single stage paint job. It was last repainted probably about 20 years ago with a single stage paint.



Just out of curiosity, what kind of car? I'm not sure what a 1972 Ford GTS is? So I'm guessing something else?






I recently washed the car and afterwards I had a ton of hard water spots on the paint from where the sun dried the car before I could chamois it dry.



That water issue is a text book example of what I wrote in my how-to book on page 34. On page 34 I describe Type III Water Spots, what type of paint they happen to and how to remove them.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=108118







I tried using a clay bar, a cleaner wax and a buffer with some Meg Ultimate Compound. But nothing seems to have worked.

I am thinking the Ultimate compound is not very abrasive as there seems to be very little paint transfer when I am working in the paint. I am a relative amateur compare to people here when it comes to auto detailing, so I really don't no what the best option is to try to restore this paint. Does anyone have any advice?



Ultimate Compound is a SMAT product, that is Super Micro Abrasive Technology. If you feel some between your fingers it will feel like a skin lotion, not rocks in a bottle. It is aggressive but it is also pad dependent for aggressive cutting or light cutting.

What did you apply it with?







I worked at it more today and I think I got some success. Originally I only tried to clay a small area and it didn't seem to do much so I didn't do the problem areas (hood, roof, trunk) as I had recently clayed the car.



Claying removes TOPICAL defects like overspray. It will have ZERO effect on SUB-SURFACE or below surface defects like water spots that have penetrated INTO the paint which is a Type III Water Spot and what you have.





I did the car today and it seemed to help reduce the spots (or at least the new ones) quite a bit.



When you say you did the car today and it helped reduce the spots....


Do you mean you clayed the car again?

Or do you mean you rubbed Ultimate Compound on the car again?






I came across the article on restoring single stage paints on this website and the suggestion was to use Meguiar's #7 and do the 12-24 hour soak. Would this be a good idea for my paint? I am not opposed to working it by hand vigorously over using the machine.



That would be my article. I find it interesting that it's heading to a half a million views while most people own cars with clearcoats. To me this shows a LOT of interest in old single stage paints.


For those reading this thread into the future, here's the mentioned article,

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html)








Any advice is greatly appreciated!




Type III Water Spots are tough to remove only because the way to remove them is to abrade i.e. compound the paint. And of course, you have a limited amount of paint before you hit primer.

The #7 contains a unique oil that brings out the full richness of color in pigmented single stage paints. It's the only product I know that offers this unique ability and the only product I know of that was introduced at the time car paint was INVENTED and is still around today.

Working #7 into the affected areas of paint would be in my opinion a good idea. It will help. Compounding however is also needed because the red pigments in the paint have been stained white. Since you say you've removed them to some level, (I don't know if you removed them via clay or compound as I didn't understand what you wrote above), I would get some #7 and start rubbing it in first as this will gorge the paint with the unique TS Oils. The gently and methodically compound the area with the Ultimate Compound and either a foam cutting or foam polishing pad or by hand with a microfiber applicator pad.

The key to success here without making a mistake is taking your time.


:)

[Cruzscarwash]

I have found that using CarPro Spotless on the paint and then spreading it and moving it around with a orange or even black pad sometimes is all that's needed to remove spots. ive used this method on baked on spots that have been baking for months in 100 degree weather and it takes them off90 % of the time with the remaining coming off with d151 or even megs 66 with little effort.

[Mike Phillips]

I have found that using CarPro Spotless on the paint and then spreading it and moving it around with a orange or even black pad sometimes is all that's needed to remove spots.

ive used this method on baked on spots that have been baking for months in 100 degree weather and it takes them off90 % of the time with the remaining coming off with d151 or even megs 66 with little effort.




Have you used this product and this process on single stage paint with spots that are IN the paint, not ON the paint?

Here's an example of Type III Water spots INSIDE single stage paint

Looks like this,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/TypeIIIWaterSpots.jpg



:)

[Mike Phillips]

For reference for others into the future...


3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/33499-3-types-water-spots-type-i-type-ii-type-iii.html)



Lots of info and pictures in the article.


:)

[72fordgts]

First of all, thank you for all the great information! So after reading all this it sounds like I should compound before I use #7. I am not sure if a spot remover is worth trying if these are Type III spots but I will probably purchase some to have on hand anyway since I have harder water at my residence.

Mike, to answer all you questions:

A 1972 Ford GTS is a 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport. I didn't know you had a book, I am going to have to add that to my reading list.

I applied the Ultimate Compound with my rotary buffer, using a terry cloth applicator. The buffer I have only has soft foam, microfiber/terry cloth and simulated lambs wool applicators. I don't think it has any specific applicators like the higher quality buffers have. This is a picture of it here (it's not a very expensive unit, I know it's not the best but it's all I have at the moment):

51466

I will clarify what I did to reduce the spots. First I used the Ultimate compound, which seemed to really not make much of a difference (Day 1). Then, day 2, I reclayed the car and this seemed to remove or reduce many of the spots. I think a lot of the spots were from the wash I did just recently where the sun dried the water before I got to it. The older spots were not affected by the clay.

My only question I have now, is should I just stick with Ultimate compound, or should I purchase something more aggressive? I have been told Meguiars 85 might be a good choice?? Although this isn't original paint, I am looking ot preserve it and make it look as good as possible as I don't see a new paint job in the near future (it will happen one day, with a good quality BC/CC).

[Mike Phillips]

First of all, thank you for all the great information! So after reading all this it sounds like I should compound before I use #7. I am not sure if a spot remover is worth trying if these are Type III spots but I will probably purchase some to have on hand anyway since I have harder water at my residence.



A "Spot Remover" is not going to work on your single stage paint. Lots of confusion about the topic of water spots so be careful who you take your advice from.






Mike, to answer all you questions:

A 1972 Ford GTS is a 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport.



Always good to learn something new. I'm not a Ford guy so I just know the basic models. Sounds like a rare car though. Here's my brother-in-laws 1970 Ford Torino GT Convertible with a power convertible top. We buffed this car out for a project but at this moment I cannot find the write-up for the paint. I can find for the wheels and tires just not the paint. Take my word for it however... this old 2-door Ford did not look like this when it arrived.

http://www.marine31online.com/gallery/data/569/SONAX_Tires_Wheels_027.jpg







I didn't know you had a book, I am going to have to add that to my reading list.



It is a paper version of my brain. :)






I applied the Ultimate Compound with my rotary buffer, using a terry cloth applicator. The buffer I have only has soft foam, microfiber/terry cloth and simulated lambs wool applicators. I don't think it has any specific applicators like the higher quality buffers have. This is a picture of it here (it's not a very expensive unit, I know it's not the best but it's all I have at the moment):

51466


Be careful you don't burn through the edges with that set-up, which is easy to do on single stage paints. Be careful also not to leave hologram swirls which will make the paint and thus the car look ugly.

If you want to get into machine polishing and doing your own work you can get a Porter Cable 7424XP or a Griot's Garage dual action polisher, (same type of tool), plus some pads for under $200.00 - If you're in this for the long run this is the route I would suggest. Lots of help on this forum to learn how to become great with these types of tools.






I will clarify what I did to reduce the spots. First I used the Ultimate compound, which seemed to really not make much of a difference (Day 1). Then, day 2, I reclayed the car and this seemed to remove or reduce many of the spots. I think a lot of the spots were from the wash I did just recently where the sun dried the water before I got to it. The older spots were not affected by the clay.



The white colored spots are in the paint and the real remedy is to simply compound the paint carefully. If it were me, I'd probably try hand rubbing them out with a microfiber applicator pad the the Ultimate Compound.





My only question I have now, is should I just stick with Ultimate compound, or should I purchase something more aggressive? I have been told Meguiars 85 might be a good choice??




I worked for Meguiar's for 11 years. Great company, great products but I wouldn't purchase M85. It's pretty old-school now days. If you want something more aggressive that still uses great abrasive technology then here's two picks...


SONAX EX 04-06 250 ml (http://www.autogeek.net/sonax-ex-0406-250.html)

Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound 250 ml (http://www.autogeek.net/rupes-zephir-compound.html)


Both are primarily for machine application but person could start by hand and then re-polish by machine.

The thing about working by hand is you can exert a lot of pressure to a small area without heating up the paint like a machine. The problem with working by hand is you can leave marring from your finger pressure but that's where you can come back and clean it up or as I like to say, schmo it over by machine.





Although this isn't original paint, I am looking to preserve it and make it look as good as possible as I don't see a new paint job in the near future (it will happen one day, with a good quality BC/CC).



Invest in either the PC or the Griot's Garage polishers. Start a new thread and ask for opinions on these two tools by others. The key is to get thin foam pads and always use products that use great abrasive technology. Can't stress that enough.

I have a poll here,

POLL - What's the number one most important factor when it comes to polishing paint? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/98943-poll-what-s-number-one-most-important-factor-when-comes-polishing-paint.html)



Most guys say technique is the most important thing but I know what I know and I know what I've seen on black paint over the decades and I simply have to respectfully disagree. Technique doesn't "touch" the paint... the abrasives do. And there's good and there's bad and if you use bad all the technique in the world won't get you good results.


Hope the above all helps...


:)

[72fordgts]

Hi Mike, thanks very much for the advice, it was very helpful. I had a bit of time tonight to work in the Ultimate Compound by hand vigorously and it seems to be working, certainly better than when I was using my machine. The spots are slowly becoming less noticeable. I noticed that I am getting lots of black coming off the paint too along with the red, which I am assuming is oxidation? I am going to work the car with Ultimate than I will try #7 on it (I ordered it today). I am sure I will be able to get the car looking much better than before. I think I will invest in a DA polisher too. I have other vehicles to detail and I am sure it'd make it a lot easier.

That is one nice looking Torino your Brother-in-law has! Looks like it has a 351 in it (according to the tag), likely a 351 Cleveland my all time favourite Ford engine.