First use of PC7424XP - Questions

[SlowJoe]

Hello.
I recently purchased from Auto Geek the Wolfgang Duo & Port Cable 7424XP Kit. I also bought the WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0, some microfiber towels and LC Blue pads. I've also read the Mike Phillips book that came with the kit over and over as well as watching his video over and over...

My car (that has been neglected paint-wise the last couple years) is a 1999 BMW M3 Cosmos black. The hood has issues, otherwise the car is in very good shape. I wish I had bought this kit and watched the AG videos years ago. What a great tool.

Last night I used it for the first time on the hood. What I did was:
Clay the hood
6 passes with the orange pad supplied with the kit and WG Total Swirl Remover 3.0
6 passes with the black pad supplied with the kit and WG Finishing Glaze 3.0
4 passes with the red pad and WG Paint Sealant 3.0

Everything went really well and the paint looks great. I can't believe how smooth the surface feels now. However, although I don't expect it to look perfect, there are some issues with the paint and I am wondering if I could do something different to help correct the issues.

First question - how many times can I do the above process on the paint before I am buffing bare steel?
Second question - there are a lot of white water spots (on some I can feel a slight ridge - others they feel smooth). There are also a lot of whitish spots that appear to maybe be damage from acid rain or something. They are very smooth, but are also very visible. On some of these spots, I gave them extra attention with the PC and WG Total Swirl Remover hoping it would buff them away. No joy.

Here is a picture of one of these spots
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TXbhmZTneSg/V5DLChOL3NI/AAAAAAAAzqE/4qBPbuNq1zc2mYJ4eBUsSe5xv_VfiwwLwCCo/s800/20160721_084654.jpg

Thanks in advance for any advice and/or suggestions.

[Setec Astronomy]

Welcome to the forum!

It's really hard to say how many times you can repeat your process, for a couple of reasons. Since you are new to this, we don't really know what your technique is like, and how much paint you actually removed with your 6 passes, and also we don't know what the history of your 20+ year old car--how much did a previous owner or detailer buff it?

The spots you pictured are most likely bird poop damage, but I suppose that could be some sort of water spot or mineral deposit. Frequently a bad bird etch will penetrate and craze the paint system down to the primer, sometimes even the metal. In that case buffing it will not improve it and may make it worse. If you can look at it or give us a macro photo, if it looks like a dry lake bed (cracked and wrinkled)--there's probably nothing you can do about it.

Glad that otherwise you are happy with your first polishing experience.

[Jaretr1]

I second the above. Lots of people bash the PC on this forum, but it is one of the most durable and user friendly tools out there, and is more than powerful enough.

To expand on the above, you should not need to do a compound and polish again, for years maybe if you maintain the car properly after you have done it the first time. Using safe washing techniques will prevent swirls from being reapplied to the car.

As far as the damage, it might be etched into the paint and there is nothing you can do to remove it. If there are tiny little cracks that got whiter, it might be because product is in there.

[brettS4]

I've used a PC (pre-XP) for a dozen years. It's a well respected workhorse.

Most likely Setec's response is accurate for your situation. You might just have to live with some spots.

4 passes with sealant is a bit much. Not that it will hurt to do that many, but you only need to spread it out (not work it in), so maybe two passes will suffice. Essentially you're using the machine to apply a 'wax' which could easily be done by hand. No need to go overboard. Save some time and product by cutting back on the number of passes.

As for repeating the process... you shouldn't have to do the TSR part again. But might do the polishing once or twice a year. Once you're satisfied with the overall paint condition it's just a matter of maintenance. Make sure you get some high quality MF towels for washing and drying. That's the key to keeping it looking good.

Otherwise, welcome to the forum!:welcome:

[dlc95]

I second the above. Lots of people bash the PC on this forum, but it is one of the most durable and user friendly tools out there, and is more than powerful enough.

To expand on the above, you should not need to do a compound and polish again, for years maybe if you maintain the car properly after you have done it the first time. Using safe washing techniques will prevent swirls from being reapplied to the car.

As far as the damage, it might be etched into the paint and there is nothing you can do to remove it. If there are tiny little cracks that got whiter, it might be because product is in there.

Absolutely agree.

That machine continues to pay bills for me. I use the Rupes system for higher end stuff, but for everything else, I use the PC. Even sold a Flex 3401 because I just preferred the results I got with the PC, and how quickly I was able to work.

I wouldn't hesitate to try the TSR on questionable spots again.

[SlowJoe]

Thank you all for your responses.

I've continued browsing and searching the forum here and there are a lot of similar questions to mine (now that I know these spots are likely bird poop etching).
I believe most of them are what Mike Phillips would call Type I
It looks like I might have some luck trying ScratchX, Meguiars Ultimate Compound, or M105.

It seems I could try one of these and use a back and forth rubbing action by hand to see if the spots get any better.
If so, would I have to do all three steps over again afterwards? Or just the Glaze and Sealant.

Also, I would like to try this DA PC on my wife's Subaru. It is only a couple years old. It's pearl white. Nice shape paint wise. Would it be ok to just do the Glaze and Sealant (after wash and clay)?

Thanks a ton for the help/advice.

[Jaretr1]

For a white car, get an All in One. If you are going to work by machine, an all in one will clean the road film off the paint, and no color is it more obvious than white. Mckee's 360, and Wolfgang Uber AIO are two excellent choices.

[dlc95]

Thank you all for your responses.

I've continued browsing and searching the forum here and there are a lot of similar questions to mine (now that I know these spots are likely bird poop etching).
I believe most of them are what Mike Phillips would call Type I
It looks like I might have some luck trying ScratchX, Meguiars Ultimate Compound, or M105.

It seems I could try one of these and use a back and forth rubbing action by hand to see if the spots get any better.
If so, would I have to do all three steps over again afterwards? Or just the Glaze and Sealant.

Also, I would like to try this DA PC on my wife's Subaru. It is only a couple years old. It's pearl white. Nice shape paint wise. Would it be ok to just do the Glaze and Sealant (after wash and clay)?

Thanks a ton for the help/advice.

Absolutely. The Finishing Glaze is actually an ultra fine cut polish that will refine the finish before applying the sealant.

[custmsprty]

Thank you all for your responses.

I've continued browsing and searching the forum here and there are a lot of similar questions to mine (now that I know these spots are likely bird poop etching).
I believe most of them are what Mike Phillips would call Type I
It looks like I might have some luck trying ScratchX, Meguiars Ultimate Compound, or M105.

It seems I could try one of these and use a back and forth rubbing action by hand to see if the spots get any better.
If so, would I have to do all three steps over again afterwards? Or just the Glaze and Sealant.

Also, I would like to try this DA PC on my wife's Subaru. It is only a couple years old. It's pearl white. Nice shape paint wise. Would it be ok to just do the Glaze and Sealant (after wash and clay)?

Thanks a ton for the help/advice.

No need to buy those other products, you already have two great polishes with the WG Duo. And their is nothing you can do by hand better than your da as far as using a polish or "scratch x" by hand. It's most likely etched the clear coat at this point.

? for you, the pic you posted, is that after your polishing steps?

[SlowJoe]

? for you, the pic you posted, is that after your polishing steps?
Yes sir. That is after all steps listed.
Thank you.

[custmsprty]

Yes sir. That is after all steps listed.
Thank you.

Yeah, then I'd say you have what you have. I've got zero experience wet sanding so it's not for me to advise that step.

I did this guys truck a few years ago and couldn't believe the bird poo didn't etch his paint. You can see how old and baked on that stuff is. I worked with the guy and know it was there for at least three weeks as I saw it every day.

Rupes LHR15 with LC Orange pads and FG400 Single Step Correction.

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/custmsprty/chevy6_zpsa1487b1e.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/custmsprty/media/chevy6_zpsa1487b1e.jpg.html)

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/custmsprty/chevy5_zpsed97e5fa.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/custmsprty/media/chevy5_zpsed97e5fa.jpg.html)

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/custmsprty/chevy3_zpsb610c0e0.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/custmsprty/media/chevy3_zpsb610c0e0.jpg.html)

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/custmsprty/chevy_zpsb410a9e7.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/custmsprty/media/chevy_zpsb410a9e7.jpg.html)

[rmagnus]

Hello.
I recently purchased from Auto Geek the Wolfgang Duo & Port Cable 7424XP Kit. I also bought the WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0, some microfiber towels and LC Blue pads. I've also read the Mike Phillips book that came with the kit over and over as well as watching his video over and over...

My car (that has been neglected paint-wise the last couple years) is a 1999 BMW M3 Cosmos black. The hood has issues, otherwise the car is in very good shape. I wish I had bought this kit and watched the AG videos years ago. What a great tool.

Last night I used it for the first time on the hood. What I did was:
Clay the hood
6 passes with the orange pad supplied with the kit and WG Total Swirl Remover 3.0
6 passes with the black pad supplied with the kit and WG Finishing Glaze 3.0
4 passes with the red pad and WG Paint Sealant 3.0

Everything went really well and the paint looks great. I can't believe how smooth the surface feels now. However, although I don't expect it to look perfect, there are some issues with the paint and I am wondering if I could do something different to help correct the issues.

First question - how many times can I do the above process on the paint before I am buffing bare steel?
Second question - there are a lot of white water spots (on some I can feel a slight ridge - others they feel smooth). There are also a lot of whitish spots that appear to maybe be damage from acid rain or something. They are very smooth, but are also very visible. On some of these spots, I gave them extra attention with the PC and WG Total Swirl Remover hoping it would buff them away. No joy.

Here is a picture of one of these spots
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TXbhmZTneSg/V5DLChOL3NI/AAAAAAAAzqE/4qBPbuNq1zc2mYJ4eBUsSe5xv_VfiwwLwCCo/s800/20160721_084654.jpg

Thanks in advance for any advice and/or suggestions.

The advise so far is solid. I'll add you should clay the panel before trying to polish it. Try to use the least aggressive method to correct what the issue is. Don't chase bird etchings. If it's eaten through the clear there isn't much you can do and hammering on it is only going to make it worse. AThe truck you did looks awesome so I'd say your technique is solid. It would help I'd you could take a closer picture I'd the water/bird dropping spot. It may not be all that bad from this posting. Please don't sand on the car without a paint guage. Any body shop will take some measurements for you just ask nicely. You really need to know what you're working with. On a 1999 car I wold go more than 2500 grit and 3000 would even be better.

Edit: In addition to flaying a decontamination treatment like IronX would be good as well. Both of those should remove all the contaminants above and below the surface.

[custmsprty]

The advise so far is solid. I'll add you should clay the panel before trying to polish it. Try to use the least aggressive method to correct what the issue is. Don't chase bird etchings. If it's eaten through the clear there isn't much you can do and hammering on it is only going to make it worse. AThe truck you did looks awesome so I'd say your technique is solid. It would help I'd you could take a closer picture I'd the water/bird dropping spot. It may not be all that bad from this posting. Please don't sand on the car without a paint guage. Any body shop will take some measurements for you just ask nicely. You really need to know what you're working with. On a 1999 car I wold go more than 2500 grit and 3000 would even be better.

Just a note, I did the truck and shared it with the OP since he was working on bird poo etchings.

[rmagnus]

Just a note, I did the truck and shared it with the OP since he was working on bird poo etchings.

LOL I just noticed that I thought he did the truck. Well sir you have solid technique LOL!

[custmsprty]

LOL I just noticed that I thought he did the truck. Well sir you have solid technique LOL!

Thanks :buffing: