What happens to Nano Ceramic coat after N years

[ihtus]

The brands that offer Nano Ceramic coating (like CQuartz Finest, Ceramic Pro, AlwaysDry, etc) have a limited number of years of the coat to stay.
2 years... 5 years.. or 12 years..

Also for a better protection, you can have multiple layers applied.. but the layers should be applied before the previous layer has cured.
If the previous layer is already cured, the next layer will NOT stick to it...and I assume the reason is because the nano particles are making the surface super smooth and noting will stick to it... including next coat.. or dirt


My big question is: WHAT HAPPENES TO THE COAT AFTER N YEARS?


At the same time AlawaysDry claimed via email that their coat will not go away.. it will just loose it's hydrophobic features.
What's the reason to have the coat that has anti dirt effect?
That means I need another coat... but the question how do I apply it?

Considering that the coat won't stick to the previous coat and that you need to wet sand to remove that coat...does that mean I need to wet sand the whole car in 5 years in order to be able to re-coat?
In this case there is a risk to sand too much of the super thin nano coat and damage the clear coat, the paint and even the primer... and reach the metal...

So... is it really worthy to apply Nano Ceramic Coats?

I would raise both hands for nano coats.. if no further recoating would be needed and no mechanical sanding would be needed... but I don't think a single application will serve the car the whole lifetime...

I could be wrong in my thoughts.
Please express your opinions and advices.
I need to get a decision: should I nano coat my Honda CRV or not...

Thank you!

[zmcgovern45]

Based on what I have gathered over the years, the general consensus for coatings is similar to what you stated with regards to the Always Dry product in that with time, the coating will not simply go away unless an abrasive is used to remove it, but certain properties (such as the ability to be hydrophobic) will be altered due to changes in surface tension which can be caused by a number of variables. Deep cleaning the coating can help to restore these properties, but there will likely be a time when the hydrophobic properties just aren't what they used to be no matter how much you clean it.

At this point in time, you can opt to use a hydrophobic topper (see Reload, VS1, C2V3, etc) as needed, or a new layer can be applied. It is quite common to machine polish the car every couple of years to remove any defects that may have been instilled, and then a new layer of coating will be applied. This polishing process also helps to ensure the surface is completely clean prior to applying the new coating. You do not have to get too aggressive with the polishing to be successful here (certainly no sanding required!!)... in fact, every 1-2 years I do a super light polish on my own car which typically involves a quick 2 passes with M205 (or similar) on a polishing pad before cleaning with IPA and reapplying a coating of my choice, and I have never had any issues with the new coating performing as expected.

With regards to your statement about layering before the previous coat has cured, this is not entirely true. Some products state you can layer almost immediately after the first coat, others recommend waiting 12-24 hours before applying another coat, and some say you can apply subsequent coats weeks later without any issues.

I am always testing coating products on my own car, and as I mentioned above, I have never had an issue with applying a new coating on a previously coated panel.

To me, the benefits of a nano coating are fantastic - my car stays cleaner for longer, it is easier to wash and much easier to dry, and there is no need to wax or seal the car throughout the year due to the durable protection. I have personally tested various panels that were 1/2 coated and 1/2 sealant or wax, and the benefits are very obvious. Long term maintenance is also easier in my opinion... as I mentioned above, I simply clean, do a light polish, and recoat every 1-2 years. I imagine if you add up the time spent maintaining a non-coated car vs a coated car, the results would be significantly in favor of the coated car.

[ihtus]

zmcgovern45, thank you for your answer!

I found out about Ceramic coat a few weeks ago, and don't know too much. From what I found, there are not too many brands on the market that sell their products directly to car owners.
For ex AlwaysDry does sell a lighter version of it to car owners, and PRO version only to professionals.
Ceramic PRO - you can get this one only at their dealers.
It is too expensive for me to pay 1000-5000$ for the work to be done, and that's why I can afford only DIY project.

So far I found only JustDry to sell their light version for 100$, and they agreed to sell PRO version but with no warranty.

You mentioned you recoat every 1-2 years..What brand of nano coat do you use?
Do you use compound when polishing?
Do you use an electric polisher? or by hand?

[zmcgovern45]

Where are you located? There are MANY coating options available to consumers..... Various 22ple Products, Optimum Gloss Coat, Various GTechniq products, Wolfgang, etc etc. In fact, the coating brands you mention are ones I have never heard of, aside from Ceramic Pro, but that is something I won't get in to.

As far as recoating goes, I recommend our customers come see us every 2-3 years to have the car polished and recoated. This is also something I do to my own cars. The reason for this is that over time, no matter how careful you are, there will always be some light marring introduced from washing and drying. The clarity can be restored with a quick machine polishing process as I mentioned, and then a new layer of protection can be applied. This service is much quicker and easier than say a full paint correction & coating job, and is great for those who can maintain their vehicle to the highest level and want to keep it looking near perfect.

As I mentioned, we often use M205 (a fine polish) for this type of service. In the event that the vehicle has obtained considerable amounts of swirls, we would proceed with a traditional paint correction process as needed which may involve compounding. We always polish by machine, never by hand.

[ihtus]

Where are you located?
Toronto, Canada

For anybody interested, here is a fragment of correspondence with AlwaysDry:

On 27-Jun-2016 11:55, Info AlwaysDry wrote:
You will be able to see if the coating is not there either by a paint meter or by some visual affects such as water beading, slickness feel, and self cleaning effect when wiped down with just water. After 5 years i would apply an additional coated
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On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:00 PM, ihtus wrote:
You mentioned that it is impossible to apply a second coat when the first was cured.
What if in 5 years there will some areas where the coating will be present? For example: no coating of the hood, but some coating remaining on the trunk.
In that case I will not be able to properly apply the second coat after 5 years.
What are you suggestions?
Thank you.
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On 27-Jun-2016 12:16, Info AlwaysDry wrote:
With the PRO version, if if was already coated i would wet sand the entire vehicle to make sure all is removed. This is what we have done in the past to ensure all is removed
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On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:18 PM, ihtus wrote:
But while sanding, there is a risk to remove the clear coat and even the paint....
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On 27-Jun-2016 12:24, Info AlwaysDry wrote:
Of course there is always that risk, When you wet sand period it takes a microscopic layer off, thats how you take scratches out. And if done too long you can go right through the clear coat and down to the primer or metal. At our coating centers we fully wet sand used cars if the condition of the paint is bad enough
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On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:27 PM, ihtus wrote:
I understand that...
I would be happy if there would be a process to exclude mechanical sanding after 5 years, when re-applying.
Could you suggest an alternative?
Maybe like wait 6 years until it will go of by itself?
Or maybe to apply as is...? What will happen if I will apply on a small portion where the old coat is still there? It won't stick, right? But it will bond right on the edge, where it ends?
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On 28-Jun-2016 07:22, Info AlwaysDry wrote:
We have been building the foundation of the company for about 3 years now, officially selling for not even a year yet. But extended weather testing has shown how long the coating will last. I cannot give you a definitive answer on what to do after 5 years because honestly we believe the coating doesn't ever really go away, it just loses repellency. At that point maybe even buffing with a rough pad and compound may do the trick. But the only way i can say for SURE the coating is removed would be wet sanding. No chemicals will take the coating off.
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On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 8:44 AM, ihtus wrote:
Thank you for being honest.
Is PRO loosing it's repellent properties in time? Even when having 2-3 layers of PRO, it's loosing repellency?

In that case I am creating more problems for my vehicle than just protecting....
Basically ...it's a temporary protection for 5 years.. and then an improper sanding could destroy the painting...

Do you guys have a test sample covered with the coat and left over time to see the results?
I would love to receive a feedback about that kind of sample after 5 years.. if an additional coat will stick to it without sanding...

From what I can understand.. nothing will bond to a new coat, because it is super SMOOTH (thanks to nano particles)...
And you said in time, it's loosing its repellency.. maybe that means it is not so SMOOTH, and perhaps a second coat on top will bond well?
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On 28-Jun-2016 11:52, Info AlwaysDry wrote:
Over time with the coating not being as repellant i can agree with you that it means the surface is not as smooth which actually would allow for a better bond. If surface was a smooth as possible then water beading effect would be very noticeable. I can say that when you apply PRO onto of the first layer it will only bond if the second coat is applied right after the first because the coating hasn't fully cured and hardened yet.
With that said after 3,4,5 years a simple compound buff and polish can correct any defects in the paint and another layer of PRO may be added on to the surface. Wet sanding may not be needed. We only do it to make sure but i understand your point and think that it is valid.

[zmcgovern45]

Ha, and somehow I forgot to mention CQuartz... but they are also widely available and have options open to consumers (see CQuartz Classic and CQuartz UK).

I believe the majority of these products that I mentioned are readily available in Canada... check them out!

[ihtus]

Thank you Zach!
CQuartz Finest claims to have the coat for about 2-3 years...
If I choose to go with nano coat, I would prefer a more durable one.

And as you can see in emails.. AlwaysDry told a wet sanding is needed.. then in the last email
after 3,4,5 years a simple compound buff and polish can correct any defects in the paint and another layer of PRO may be added

When you buff and polish with a compound over an old and existing nano layer... does that create micro scratches and relief, which helps for the second coat to bond well?

[zmcgovern45]

No, CQuartz Finest has a 2 year warranty... the coating can last much longer, but the warranty coverage is just for 2 years. FWIW, all warranty offerings for coatings should be ignored.

Most coatings will claim a 2-3 year durability... this is because the manufacturer knows the hydrophobic properties are likely going to degrade or completely vanish after this period of time. most consumers mistake this to mean the coating itself has vanished, even though that should not be the case as mentioned above, but nevertheless, they put this timestamp on the coating because it is best to have the vehicle properly cleaned, polished, and recoated at this point in time to keep it looking its best.

Again, I have tested A LOT of coatings throughout the years. You're making this too difficult on yourself. The honest answer... just pick one. All of them that we have experimented with work great. They will all lose hydrophobic properties after a period of time. They will all need to be reapplied eventually. There is no magical coating that will live forever (yes, even if you do 15 coats).

I would not use that Alwyas Dry coating for that very reason then, if they are so certain that subsequent applications will not be successful without wet sanding. That is nonsense IMO.

[Mike lambert]

Excellent answer Zach!

[bryanviper]

I'm from Toronto also :xyxthumbs:

I used CQuartz UK on my new car a month or so ago and its been great. You just have to apply it correctly or else you get high spots. But its also supposed to help protect against minor scratches which is why I bought it and its not to expensive. Top it off with Reload and its a very good product.

[ihtus]

I would not use that Alwyas Dry coating for that very reason then
Thank you! I will follow your advice. I need to find a way to buy CQuartz Finest or Opti-Coat.. it looks like it's possible to get it only at professional detailers here in Canada and pay for labor. I wanna try DIY.
If you have an idea where I can purchase it via internet, that would be great! Thank you!

[ihtus]

I'm from Toronto also :xyxthumbs:

I used CQuartz UK on my new car a month or so ago and its been great. You just have to apply it correctly or else you get high spots. But its also supposed to help protect against minor scratches which is why I bought it and its not to expensive. Top it off with Reload and its a very good product.
awesome! where did you buy it from? any links? thanks!

[zmcgovern45]

Thank you! I will follow your advice. I need to find a way to buy CQuartz Finest or Opti-Coat.. it looks like it's possible to get it only at professional detailers here in Canada and pay for labor. I wanna try DIY.
If you have an idea where I can purchase it via internet, that would be great! Thank you!

Correct, you cannot get CQuartz Finest or Opti-Coat - they are only available to professional installers. You must chose one of the consumer grade products like CQuartz Classic, CQuartz UK, or Optimum Gloss Coat.

[richy]

If you're from Toronto, this retailer is Canadian and sells CQuartz UK. I'm not sure if I can post the link...actually, I'm gonna PM you it and he's close to you.

[ihtus]

I really hope to not have troubles like this guy had - http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/91075-2-years-opti-coat-not-very-happy.html