Pad inducing micro swirls in the paint?

[Ruben12]

I am getting out a lot of the major defects but for some reason the pads are leaving behind micro swirls. I don't think my towels are causing the micro swirls as I am wiping off the polish in one direction and they are fresh out of the bag and are decent quality (CG). I have tried all different kinds of variations with the chemical guys pads and polishes and I can't seem to get a clear finish on my paint. I have gotten some great advice from a well renowned detailer. His advice to me was to use a MEGS microfiber cutting pad with M105 and then to follow it up with M205 with a yellow/white Rupes pad.

What do you guys think? Maybe it could be pad contamination? Maybe it could be products not working with the paint well? I'm not sure based on all the different opinions I have gotten.

Check out my videos on youtube to get an idea of what I am talking about (micro swirls)

https://youtu.be/h856LDuIqhM
https://youtu.be/bH_tjQwL60c
https://youtu.be/PeT-ddEx7vA

[StephenK]

What pads ,product and machine are you currently using

[DaveT435]

Are you brushing the pad off and cleaning on the fly?

I didn't click on the links, but unless it's product pad combo I would say you have some contaminants on the pad...

[HUMP DIESEL]

The M205 on the yellow pad can leave some marring. Try loading the pad and then turn the speed down. Run a couple of passes and check, then don't add product and run a couple of more passes. If the paint is on the softer side, you may have to dilute the 205 mixture.

HUMP

[Ruben12]

The M205 on the yellow pad can leave some marring. Try loading the pad and then turn the speed down. Run a couple of passes and check, then don't add product and run a couple of more passes. If the paint is on the softer side, you may have to dilute the 205 mixture.

HUMP

Well, I haven't used those products yet. I am currently using chem guys hex logic pads and Vline polishes. I have been told that their pads aren't the best and that I should probably go with a MG micro cutting pad along with rupes yellow and white foam finishing pad. My main concern though is the minor scratches I'm being left with after compounding/polishing the paint. Those scratches were not there before.

[Ruben12]

What pads ,product and machine are you currently using

Chemical guys hex logic pads and TorqX.

[Ruben12]

Are you brushing the pad off and cleaning on the fly?

I didn't click on the links, but unless it's product pad combo I would say you have some contaminants on the pad...

Well those are just test spots, so I didn't think I had to clean the pads out because I hadn't used them. Of course I did wash them before performing another test spot.

[Mike Phillips]

I am getting out a lot of the major defects but for some reason the pads are leaving behind micro swirls.


I have tried all different kinds of variations with the chemical guys pads and polishes and I can't seem to get a clear finish on my paint.





When it comes to polishing paint, especially clearcoats due to the fact that they are scratch-sensitive, I always tell people the MOST important factor is the abrasive technology.

Apparently I'm wrong as the majority of guys that have answered my poll say it's technique. :laughing:


See for yourself....


POLL - What's the number one most important factor when it comes to polishing paint? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/98943-poll-what-s-number-one-most-important-factor-when-comes-polishing-paint.html)


And I just respectfully disagree. It's real simple. The first thing that comes into contact with the scratch-sensitive paint is the abrasive. Not your technique. :laughing:

Not sure what guru you spoke with but as a former Meguiar's employee, actually the primary instructor for all their detailing classes from 2002 to 2009, I'd say his recommendations were "good".

M105 and M205 are good products. I prefer M100 and I'll tend to use other polishes instead of M205 as it tends to like hard paints and can micro-mar soft paints. Then some guys explain all kinds of ways to get M205 to work on soft paint when it's simpler and faster to just use a polish that works great on all paints.

I switched Wayne Carini's shop over to Pinnacle Advanced Compound and Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish for all their paint correction in the detailing bay and for compounding and polishing after wet sanding and he works on million dollar cars.

SONAX uses great abrasive technology in their compounds as does Menzerna and RUPES too.

Take a look at some of these t test out.

Also - microfiber pads are at their core FIBER pads. The pads are made up of thousands of individual fibers and each one of these individual fibers can put it's individual cut in the paint and this shows up as micro-marring.

Nothing wrong with fiber pads for hard paints and product ion work but foam pads and specifically FLAT faced foam pads will finish out nicer more consistently on all paint systems as compared to any type of fiber pad.


For what it's worth...


:)

[DaveT435]

Yeah...sorry I didn't read the entire post...

[TTQ B4U]

Well, I haven't used those products yet. I am currently using chem guys hex logic pads and Vline polishes. I have been told that their pads aren't the best and that I should probably go with a MG micro cutting pad along with rupes yellow and white foam finishing pad. My main concern though is the minor scratches I'm being left with after compounding/polishing the paint. Those scratches were not there before.


My advice remains the same.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/101829-trouble-2016-mustang-black-paint-3.html#post1388298

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Hexlogic Pads. They are not everyone's favorite but I've been using them for a while and have no issues. Here's my pure black Audi (http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah133/PDQS4/Misc%20Detailing/IMG_5426_zpsx9pswqkg.jpg)that's been polished with nothing but their pads. Here's our metallic Van (http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah133/PDQS4/Minivan/20160227_113943_zpsjdytrqey.jpg)after HDSpeed and a green hex pad. Similar color to your Mustang.

IMO the Ford Paint which can be tough is likely just not being finished out enough. The above will take care of that nicely. Start with a green pad and if need be go orange. However, I think Green will suffice.

[Ruben12]

When it comes to polishing paint, especially clearcoats due to the fact that they are scratch-sensitive, I always tell people the MOST important factor is the abrasive technology.

Apparently I'm wrong as the majority of guys that have answered my poll say it's technique. :laughing:


See for yourself....


POLL - What's the number one most important factor when it comes to polishing paint? (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/98943-poll-what-s-number-one-most-important-factor-when-comes-polishing-paint.html)


And I just respectfully disagree. It's real simple. The first thing that comes into contact with the scratch-sensitive paint is the abrasive. Not your technique. :laughing:

Not sure what guru you spoke with but as a former Meguiar's employee, actually the primary instructor for all their detailing classes from 2002 to 2009, I'd say his recommendations were "good".

M105 and M205 are good products. I prefer M100 and I'll tend to use other polishes instead of M205 as it tends to like hard paints and can micro-mar soft paints. Then some guys explain all kinds of ways to get M205 to work on soft paint when it's simpler and faster to just use a polish that works great on all paints.

I switched Wayne Carini's shop over to Pinnacle Advanced Compound and Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish for all their paint correction in the detailing bay and for compounding and polishing after wet sanding and he works on million dollar cars.

SONAX uses great abrasive technology in their compounds as does Menzerna and RUPES too.

Take a look at some of these t test out.

Also - microfiber pads are at their core FIBER pads. The pads are made up of thousands of individual fibers and each one of these individual fibers can put it's individual cut in the paint and this shows up as micro-marring.

Nothing wrong with fiber pads for hard paints and product ion work but foam pads and specifically FLAT faced foam pads will finish out nicer more consistently on all paint systems as compared to any type of fiber pad.


For what it's worth...


:)

Thanks for your advice! I am hesitant to buy a microfiber pad because of the increased cut it comes with. I don't think my paint is hard. Based on my results I believe that it's in-between Hard and soft. What foam pads would you recommend. I have heard great things about the Rupes finishing pads. What do you think about them? I am just on the market for a decent compounding pad.

Also M105 seems like it would be too abrasive of a compound for the current condition of my paint. I would like to give it a try, but being an amateur I don't want to remove any more clear coat than I should. If I go with M105 what pad would you recommend I use to compound my paint? It's tough deciding because of all the opinions I am receiving. I would hate to invest so much money into something and it not work for me. Also I understand that you said the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish is great, but investing in a 16oz bottle and it not work would kill me. What polish would you say works great on all paints?

[Ruben12]

My advice remains the same.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-mike-phillips-your-detailing-questions/101829-trouble-2016-mustang-black-paint-3.html#post1388298

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Hexlogic Pads. They are not everyone's favorite but I've been using them for a while and have no issues. Here's my pure black Audi (http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah133/PDQS4/Misc%20Detailing/IMG_5426_zpsx9pswqkg.jpg)that's been polished with nothing but their pads. Here's our metallic Van (http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah133/PDQS4/Minivan/20160227_113943_zpsjdytrqey.jpg)after HDSpeed and a green hex pad. Similar color to your Mustang.

IMO the Ford Paint which can be tough is likely just not being finished out enough. The above will take care of that nicely. Start with a green pad and if need be go orange. However, I think Green will suffice.

My confusion here is that when I first used the orange pad it caused tons of compounding scratches that were really hard to get out. Still to this day I haven't been able to get all of them out. So I'm confused as to if it were the pad or compound (V36) that caused the micro scratches. The green pad is also just slightly less aggressive than the orange pad which is why I'm also hesitant to purchase one because of the possibility of it not working.

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for your advice! I am hesitant to buy a microfiber pad because of the increased cut it comes with. I don't think my paint is hard. Based on my results I believe that it's in-between Hard and soft. What foam pads would you recommend. I have heard great things about the Rupes finishing pads. What do you think about them? I am just on the market for a decent compounding pad.



I like the RUPES pads. I use the blue and white pads for most project. I feature ALL of their pads on dedicated cars in my RUPES how-to book.

I've never used the CG Torque, I think I have one in the box out in the garage, just haven't used it.






Also M105 seems like it would be too abrasive of a compound for the current condition of my paint. I would like to give it a try, but being an amateur I don't want to remove any more clear coat than I should.




Good plan. But... some compounds like M105 or the consumer version Ultimate Compound use SMAT and you can stop buffing at any point. This makes them safer than old school rocks-in-a-bottle compounds.





If I go with M105 what pad would you recommend I use to compound my paint? It's tough deciding because of all the opinions I am receiving. I would hate to invest so much money into something and it not work for me.




Since I have not used the CG Torq I don't have the experience to give you a real world answer. Maybe someone else can chime in? I have a car project tomorrow, I could break it out and test the new B&S pads.





A complete pad system from B&S

So if you're looking for some tough pads that can handle your long-throw orbital polisher then give these a test drive!



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3086/New_B_and_S_Long_Stroke_Pads_03.jpg




On Autogeek.com


6 Inch Buff & Shine Uro-Tec Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/6-inch-uro-tec-pads.html)

7 Inch Buff & Shine Uro-Tec Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/7-inch-uro-tec-pads.html)








Also I understand that you said the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish is great, but investing in a 16oz bottle and it not work would kill me. What polish would you say works great on all paints?



Pinnacle works great on all paints. I've demonstrated this for the last few years with multiple, multiple show cars.

Great abrasive technology isn't cheap and cheap abrasive technology doesn't work. Your time is also worth something and as soon as you have to do the job twice you've just paid for these two products.

Take a gamble on me. Call one of our customer care reps at 1-800-869-3011 and tell them you talked to me and order these two products.

Pinnacle Advanced Compound (http://www.autogeek.net/pinnacle-compound.html)

Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/best-car-finishing-polish.html)


These two products will work on ANY paint system with any tool, any pad and by hand. Wait till Friday and I'll test out the B&S pads on the Torq and let you know if they work and if they don't I'll find a pad that DOES work and let you know. Then use these products and the pads and I guarantee you'll get perfect results the first time. If you don't, no questions asked, I'll have a pre-paid shipping box sent to you and you can send them back and we'll give you a store credit to purchase any other products.



I would not have switched Wayne over to products that don't work.


Check out this thread, it's just one example of the results you get.


1971 Dodge Charger R/T - 1940 Oldsmobile Streetrod shine by Pinnacle (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/89336-1971-dodge-charger-r-t-1940-oldmobile-streetrod-shine-pinnacle.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=91296

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=91297


:)

[TTQ B4U]

My confusion here is that when I first used the orange pad it caused tons of compounding scratches that were really hard to get out. Still to this day I haven't been able to get all of them out. So I'm confused as to if it were the pad or compound (V36) that caused the micro scratches. The green pad is also just slightly less aggressive than the orange pad which is why I'm also hesitant to purchase one because of the possibility of it not working.


I'm no Mike Phillips but I will tell you 100% unless the pad is contaminated an orange or green pad will not create any mars in paint. I use them all the time. Green is a great median between orange and white and works amazing with an AIO like HDSpeed.

I just polished out some minor marks that were on my Audi from the kids. A couple bike marks and a couple areas of scratches where they close the rear doors. I used a white pad and they came out in just 2 to 3 passes. Very easy to use. Add in a coat of your favorite LSP and enjoy!

I'll try and get some video of the paint to show you how clear it can be with the right combo of products. I'm not the best with video and getting it to meter well off black with a bright light on it but I'll try and post back tonight.

[Ruben12]

I like the RUPES pads. I use the blue and white pads for most project. I feature ALL of their pads on dedicated cars in my RUPES how-to book.

I've never used the CG Torque, I think I have one in the box out in the garage, just haven't used it.



Good plan. But... some compounds like M105 or the consumer version Ultimate Compound use SMAT and you can stop buffing at any point. This makes them safer than old school rocks-in-a-bottle compounds.




Since I have not used the CG Torq I don't have the experience to give you a real world answer. Maybe someone else can chime in? I have a car project tomorrow, I could break it out and test the new B&S pads.





A complete pad system from B&S

So if you're looking for some tough pads that can handle your long-throw orbital polisher then give these a test drive!



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/3086/New_B_and_S_Long_Stroke_Pads_03.jpg




On Autogeek.com


6 Inch Buff & Shine Uro-Tec Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/6-inch-uro-tec-pads.html)

7 Inch Buff & Shine Uro-Tec Foam Pads (http://www.autogeek.net/7-inch-uro-tec-pads.html)







Pinnacle works great on all paints. I've demonstrated this for the last few years with multiple, multiple show cars.

Great abrasive technology isn't cheap and cheap abrasive technology doesn't work. Your time is also worth something and as soon as you have to do the job twice you've just paid for these two products.

Take a gamble on me. Call one of our customer care reps at 1-800-869-3011 and tell them you talked to me and order these two products.

Pinnacle Advanced Compound (http://www.autogeek.net/pinnacle-compound.html)

Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish (http://www.autogeek.net/best-car-finishing-polish.html)


These two products will work on ANY paint system with any tool, any pad and by hand. Wait till Friday and I'll test out the B&S pads on the Torq and let you know if they work and if they don't I'll find a pad that DOES work and let you know. Then use these products and the pads and I guarantee you'll get perfect results the first time. If you don't, no questions asked, I'll have a pre-paid shipping box sent to you and you can send them back and we'll give you a store credit to purchase any other products.



I would not have switched Wayne over to products that don't work.


Check out this thread, it's just one example of the results you get.


1971 Dodge Charger R/T - 1940 Oldsmobile Streetrod shine by Pinnacle (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-autogeek-s-car-week/89336-1971-dodge-charger-r-t-1940-oldmobile-streetrod-shine-pinnacle.html)



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=91296

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=91297


:)


Wow thanks for all of the information Mr. Phillips! I will defiantly give these products a try.

I have not encountered anyone on the forum who uses a Torq DA polisher. It would be great if you can test it out for me and see which pads work best with it.

Also based on your response with the Rupes pads I will be getting a yellow and white finishing pad as soon as possible. If you find a finishing pad that works better with the Torq I will go ahead and purchase that one.

Based on what I have read and have been told on the forums, ford paint isn't soft. I'm thinking for some reason the pads might of been contaminated or I didn't work the product long enough. It is reassuring that someone who has many years of experience is giving me their word on products. As stated it's not the technique it's the abrasive technology. I use a 3 pass system with a cross hatch pattern to make sure I have covered every part of the surface evenly. I am also very careful on overworking the compound/polish, so once it's no longer visible I stop and wipe off. It would be awesome of you to get back to me once you are able to figure our what works best! THANKS!!