Layering protection... ??? ...

[Rod73]

I'm curious what the forum members' perspectives are on adding a second layer of protection.

I get that the 40 layers of wax is just waisting products, but I have been really sold on having a 2nd layer of protection for uniformity, to extend and protect the original layer, and to even add a little bit of gloss if already properly detailed. A lot of those concepts I give credit to Larry Kosilla of AMO NYC. I even considered applying Fuzion over WGDPS 3.0 when a customer needs their car before that 12 hour window just to protect it from the elements.

But I know Gary Dean generally frowns upon it unless it's being topped with his complimentary spray sealant. His explanation being that solvent in the wax/sealant will remove the previously applied layer. When he said solvent, it did occur to me he may just be refering to something that is in a 'Cleaner Wax' which ofcourse will remove some or all of previously applied protection.

I am interested in what you guys think? I USUALLY keep it in the same product line when I top my LSP. Some exceptions when I compliment the Blackfire, Pinnacle, and Wolfgang line. For example I have used Crystal Seal and then an hour later topped with Souveran.

[GSKR]

Just use some mckees coating.affordable and user friendly and will outlast all those waxes and sealers.

[PiPUK]

I have argued on this topic before. A lot comes down to the specifics of the product. In many instances, products simply do not layer. You could apply them all year and the thickness of the layer will simply not increase. That is a chemical reality and is a genuine attribute of certain products. In many applications, a physical build up of product is undesirable or problematic and I can tell you for fact that there is material crossover to detailing. In this case, you can layer all you like but you are doing nothing more than wasting time and filling someone else's pockets. Can you identify if your product is like this? No chance, not even with an MSDS can you tell. Can you trust that your product supplier knows? My experience is that the answer is routinely no. You will be given the standard line about layering (it is good to layer, because you use more product and pay more money) but I would be shocked if 1 in 100 of the customer facing representatives even understands that the above scenario exists.

We also have the issue of the new product interfering with the existing layer. I have argued about this mostly with regards to glazes. The simple reality, with a glaze, is that it has limited or no binding to the surface. As soon as you apply something on top, it will mobilise the glaze. At best, you will end up with a layer of mixed glaze/topper product, at worst the application of the topper product will actually remove a bunch of the glaze. It is extremely unlikely that you get even close to distinct layers. With layers of sealants or waxes, it will be more product dependent. Waxes can only layer so far before you physically shear off the underlying wax - you end up just moving it around the surface and then buffing new wax off again. Sealants can often have solvents (should I say typically?). Given the view of many on how easy it is to remove sealants/waxes with as little as 10% IPA, I am shocked that someone would believe that there is no harm done with these sealants which have much higher levels of things as mundane as IPA and often much less mundane. In practice we know that many sealants are not easy to remove, even with IPA but the principle remains that the underlying product can be damaged or removed by what you apply on top. I should also make it clear that sealants are much more likely to fit in with the above paragraph - they often just don't layer. By layering, all you are doing is depositing more of the filling element. Of course this can make it look better (duh...) but you are rarely going to be adding any real protection.

[silverfox]

Layering is pure marketing genius. Nothing more. Even with the advent of coatings the marketing geniuses have convinced us that we need to layer and top coatings. Whatever. My rule of thumb...prep the paint surgically clean and apply ONE LSP of your choice. Then maintain with weekly washes. Use a manufacturer recommended booster product monthly or bi monthly.

[TTQ B4U]

Going crazy with layers isn't going to build up much of anything other than wasted time. I do apply different products over time but curing time between and care during application matter.

My process from scratch is to glaze and seal the car with a synthetic product. The following week or two later I may come back with a carnauba to richen up the tone and deepen the shine. For weeks after, it's just gloss boosting things with a detail mist and then Crystal Seal after say the third or fourth wash. I will alternate Crystal Seal and detail mist every couple weeks until my next full coating / detail.

Just this week I added a nice coat of BLACKFIRE BlackICE Hybrid Montan Sealant so she should be good to go for several weeks. I'll make the call based on how clean water beads and the surface feels down the road. I use Wolfgang Uber weekly when washing so that helps insure things will stay good.

[SRConcepts]

Like the others above, I believe in using one good coat of a single LSP and leaving it at that. The only exception to the rule for me is the Blackfire Wet-Ice-Over-Fire (BFWD/BFMS), as I like the final look it gives regardless of the protection it leaves, whether diminished or amplified.

[FUNX650]

First:
-What factor(s) determines/defines
"protection"---and if it's present,
and can be accounted for, in any
given LSP's application?

Then:
-After being so determined/defined:
Does (can) even one layer of an
LSP provide such protection for
automotive surfaces?


Editorial:
-It almost seems that trusting in the LSPs'
manufacturers and resellers marketing-spiels
is our only recourse at this juncture...



Bob

[ski2]

PiPUK--Do you think that glazes that deposit a polymer based filler (like Prima Amigo) will perform better when applying a top coat of a synthetic based product??