Going from a abrasive compound to a finishing polish

[uhohitsstevo]

Is it bad to go from a hard compound that is really abrasive right to a finish polish like po85rd or is it recommend to use something in between.

for example

M105 orange pad, followed by po85rd

or should i use

m105 - then m205 - then po85rd

when is the advantage of using the 3 step rather than the two step? If there is any holograming would the po85rd be strong enough to get it out?

also, I have a few spots on my car that might need a microfiber cutting pad to get through but the rest of the car is in good condition, can i use the microfiber cutting pads on certain parts? and then finish with the same product or will it look weird, what are your recommendations for this.

[vobro]

Most of the newer compounds finish out a lot better than old school "rocks in a bottle" compounds and yes your above combo can work. On lighter colors a one step is ok for a lot of people and they won't notice that a final polish was or wasn't used, with a proper technique. The best way to know is to do a test spot and see if it comes out to your standards.

[uhohitsstevo]

So basically will

M105 orange pad, followed by po85rd

m105 - then m205 - then po85rd

finish out the same?

and

will spot treating difficult spots with a microfiber cutting pad and doing the rest in foam and then finishing with foam finishing pad be noticeable or will it finish out the same.

[custmsprty]

Or you could go one step with FG400 or Hd Adapt and tweak your pads and save time and money.

[vobro]

I've seen guys just use M105 alone with different pads get awesome results, also M205 can also be used on scratches that you'd swear needed a compound. There's no magic answer and to many variables, do a test spot

[FUNX650]

IMO:
Performing "The Test Spot" will
provide you with the best answers.


Bob

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

For me, po85rd is only reserved when extracting the maximum amount of gloss from the panel is desired.

In your scenario you will be better served by utilizing M205 on a polishing pad to remove and clear up anything left behind from M205. After that you can utilize po85rd on a black finishing pad or finer to get that last bit of gloss.

Yes you can perform spot correction in the needed areas and then follow up with the polishing step over the entire vehicle.

[Zubair]

Or you could go one step with FG400 or Hd Adapt and tweak your pads and save time and money.


I've seen guys just use M105 alone with different pads get awesome results, also M205 can also be used on scratches that you'd swear needed a compound. There's no magic answer and to many variables, do a test spot

The above is 100% what I personally believe. Too much nonsense on the net about redundant steps that don't yield anything worth shouting about. Modern compounds can be one stepped or worst case use the same compound on a softer pad and its lsp ready. Don't fall for marketing hype and fanboy sensationalists, keep it simple.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I rarely do 2 steps these days. Most of the time a 2nd step won't yield the results that make it worth it. Find the right combo of tool, pad and polish and get it done. Your car is black, so when using MF pads, unless the paint is super hard, you'll probably need to follow with a 2nd step in those areas. Lighter colors can be 1 stepped all day long with MF pads.

[richy]

It depends entirely on your skill level and the degree of correction you were going for in the first place. Some paint is so bloody hard, you need to get very aggressive to reach what you want to and that creates its own problems that need a 2nd and third step to get perfect. Having said that...that's very rare. I 3 stepped that AMG S55 I did last week, but if it was for another customer who wasn't a detailer himself, and also didn't want it better than new, 2 steps would have been fine. The old "test spot" as alluded to above, is paramount to determine what will work. Don't be afraid to think outside the box. I live there, LOL. Also, do your test spot on the worst area. If it works there, it will work everywhere (unless you've got sections that are re-paint or something weird like that).

[Mike Phillips]

Just read through this thread, here's my two cents...

Modern quality compounds, (there are still caveman compounds on the market), will finish down to almost perfection.

I would also say don't be fooled by the finished appearance after compounding with an aggressive compound and aggressive pad, (foam or fiber). The results may look good but if you were to wash the car with a strong detergent soap to wash off the polishing oils my experience has shown me you'll see dull, hazy areas BECAUSE you used an aggressive compound and an aggressive pad - both can scour the surface and remember, for most of you the surface is a scratch-sensitive clearcoat paint.



You might only see the dullness on a black car but if it's happening to black it's happening to all colors your eyes just can't see it.


My own practice and my strong recommendation is that if you start with an aggressive compound and a cutting pad then at a minimum you should either follow this with a secondary step using a finishing polish and either a foam polishing pad or a foam finishing pad and then go to your LSP.


Another option would be to follow with a quality cleaner/wax like McKee's 37 Jewelling Wax. Been there done that and works great.

Also if you look at all the show car detailing we did at my last class, each of these were 3-step or 4 step processes. Aggressive compound followed by finishing polish followed by LSP. For three cars we compounds, polished, the stripped and the applied a ceramic coating, so that's 4 steps. Keep in mind these are all streetrods, muscle cars, classics or show cars, not ordinary daily drivers but the same principals apply to anything you work on.


Pictures: May 2016 Competition Ready 3-Day Detailing Class with Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-comments-competition-ready-3-day-detailing-classes-mike-phillips/101310-pictures-may-2016-competition-ready-3-day-detailing-class-mike-phillips.html)



I also explain why to make it a "Best Practice" to follow an aggressive compound with a less aggressive pad and polish to avoid returning to your customer a car with dull hazy paint under the oils and wax.


Again, don't be fooled by the glamorous appearance results from high quality compounds, I agree they look GREAT and even tell a story about how I called RUPES after using Blue/Blue on a yellow 1956 Nomad that's on the cover of my RUPES book and even though the results from Blue/Blue looked awesome I STILL followed this with White/White and then the LSP.

While the paint looks great after applying the Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax it seriously looked great after cutting with the coarse Rupes blue foam cutting pad and the coarse Rupes Zephyr Gloss Compound. It looks so great that just to make sure the RUPES official recommendation to follow their compound with one of their less aggressive polishes was correct I double checked with RUPES and they said "yes". (No telling with these crazy Italians).



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=90256

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=90257


This Nomad is on the cover of my RUPES book and I detail all the cars in my how-to books.



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1313/RUPES_Book_Cover_021.jpg



:)

[RaskyR1]

IMO it depend on the tool and pad used with the compound as well as the paint itself. Todays compounds are a lot better but if you start with a twisted wool pad on a rotary polisher you'll most likely want to have an intermediate step. If you start with foam or even a purple foam wool/TufBuff pad you can likely go right to finishing without issue, but it will still depend on the paint IMO.

Many times the paint may look good even after stripping with a solvent, it's not until a few weeks later that the true finish shows it self so better safe then sorry IMO.

[Paul A.]

After doing this stuff for many years now, i have refined how i evaluate the effectiveness of what i do with my test spots. I have develloped a well trained eye to carefully and specifically look at the results of what steps i just did and with what products, pads, machine and motions. I admit to performing cursory looks when i first started correcting paint some years ago. "Yup, that looks good!". Good enough...now do that all over. I now take a very critical look at specifically what that last test spot did with THAT paint. And each test spot refines the previous effort a bit. Now do THAT all over. The advantage to me is the least amount of steps to get the best results for that job.

I also strive for consistency all over the vehicle. Yes, for example, i may be compounding more aggressively that spot behind the front passenger wheel but when i'm done i want all of the paint to look the same i.e. as flat as the customer wants to pay for.

For what it's worth, i don't think i have ever done M105, then M205 and finally a Menzerna jewelling step because i couldn't get 205 to finish out acceptably. I have done M105 and EITHER 205 or PO85RD. On the other hand, i have done Menz FG400 all by itself and then straight to LSP.

There are sooooo many variables and options nowadays. For me it comes down to the least amount of steps to satisfy ME that the customer is getting what they pay for and most times beyond.

Now...on my car? I jewell to extract every single, itty bitty, teeny weeny amount of gloss, pop and sparkle i can get. Most times that's just to assure myself that if i ever do get one of Mike's "show cars" i know how to do it!

[uhohitsstevo]

Just read through this thread, here's my two cents...

Modern quality compounds, (there are still caveman compounds on the market), will finish down to almost perfection.

I would also say don't be fooled by the finished appearance after compounding with an aggressive compound and aggressive pad, (foam or fiber). The results may look good but if you were to wash the car with a strong detergent soap to wash off the polishing oils my experience has shown me you'll see dull, hazy areas BECAUSE you used an aggressive compound and an aggressive pad - both can scour the surface and remember, for most of you the surface is a scratch-sensitive clearcoat paint.



You might only see the dullness on a black car but if it's happening to black it's happening to all colors your eyes just can't see it.


My own practice and my strong recommendation is that if you start with an aggressive compound and a cutting pad then at a minimum you should either follow this with a secondary step using a finishing polish and either a foam polishing pad or a foam finishing pad and then go to your LSP.


Another option would be to follow with a quality cleaner/wax like McKee's 37 Jewelling Wax. Been there done that and works great.

Also if you look at all the show car detailing we did at my last class, each of these were 3-step or 4 step processes. Aggressive compound followed by finishing polish followed by LSP. For three cars we compounds, polished, the stripped and the applied a ceramic coating, so that's 4 steps. Keep in mind these are all streetrods, muscle cars, classics or show cars, not ordinary daily drivers but the same principals apply to anything you work on.


Pictures: May 2016 Competition Ready 3-Day Detailing Class with Mike Phillips (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/pictures-comments-competition-ready-3-day-detailing-classes-mike-phillips/101310-pictures-may-2016-competition-ready-3-day-detailing-class-mike-phillips.html)



I also explain why to make it a "Best Practice" to follow an aggressive compound with a less aggressive pad and polish to avoid returning to your customer a car with dull hazy paint under the oils and wax.


Again, don't be fooled by the glamorous appearance results from high quality compounds, I agree they look GREAT and even tell a story about how I called RUPES after using Blue/Blue on a yellow 1956 Nomad that's on the cover of my RUPES book and even though the results from Blue/Blue looked awesome I STILL followed this with White/White and then the LSP.

While the paint looks great after applying the Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax it seriously looked great after cutting with the coarse Rupes blue foam cutting pad and the coarse Rupes Zephyr Gloss Compound. It looks so great that just to make sure the RUPES official recommendation to follow their compound with one of their less aggressive polishes was correct I double checked with RUPES and they said "yes". (No telling with these crazy Italians).



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=90256

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=90257


This Nomad is on the cover of my RUPES book and I detail all the cars in my how-to books.



http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1313/RUPES_Book_Cover_021.jpg



:)


so would you recommend doing a test spot, doing a m205 then an ipa wipe down and look for hazing and then do the po85rd on a softer pad and then another ipa wipe down, or would you recommend 205, po85rd, then wipe down. also what would you recommend on spot touch ups with a microfiber pad that might only be necessary on one panel of the car. obviously i don't wanna use the microfiber on the whole car if only one panel needs it how would you tackle this. would i notice it if i did orange foam pad on all the car except one panel followed by wipe foam pad with finishing polish, and then on the other do a microfiber cutting pad, then white foam with finishing, as long as i am finishing with the same combo i should be fine right?

[Zubair]

You overthinking things.