I really tried-Help me from making it worse

[custmsprty]

Yea...just frustrated as hell. Thought I was doing everything right. Clearly I need to change how I'm doing things.

Ha....you gonna be in VA anytime soon. J/K. To put this in the sexist category, help ain't a coming. Next to mowing the grass and the garden I do the outside stuff and she does most of the inside stuff.

A couple of questions.

The surface itself is fine. I can run my fingers and it is smooth with no bumps or debris. It is smooth but I do have clay bars on the way as well if needed.

Keeping in mind I have a practice vehicle. But when I get to the Murano should I or do I need to use a clear coat safe polish first before using the Klasse AIO? Or is that being redundant? Or if you really had your preference rather I just use HD Speed. Admittedly their are a ton of similar products that I've recently discovered over the last couple of weeks. I mean you cant believe everything you read on the internet as they say. Especially when it comes to the marketing of products. I know I'm putting you on the spot a bit. I do apologize for that.

My personal preference is Speed topped with Poxy for additional protection and shine as an lsp applied with a da is super fast. I use Speed more like a Polish and will make 5-6 section passes with my polisher.

No problem. And if you think your paint is relatively smooth do the baggie test LOL. Do you know what that is? It's eye opening that's for sure.

Here's Mike P's youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml434m7ILNA

[Valky]

Others already tell you about how to solve those swirl, I will tell you how to priperly wash them. First, throw away those microfiber wash mitt and change to LC wash wedge instead. Many low quality microfiber or even good quality have some problem that is they are trap and collect dirt so easy, even sometime we try to clean them, something will still trapped inside. On the otherside, great design sponge like LC wash wedge are so gentle and can release dirt pretty easy, it's the best media for me when washing the car.

By the way, if you want to increase some hardness of your paint, some coating will help. Usually ceramic coating will increase the slickness for easy clean and some little scratch resistant as well.

[Don M]

Klasse AIO is a non-abrasive chemical cleaner, so you will need at least a MILD cutting polish/pad combination to get the swirls out. I had an '89 Camaro with very soft paint on the hood and Meguiar's #9 was the ONLY thing that would get rid of the haze. I suppose you could equate Ultimate Polish for #9 these days.

[GSKR]

Yeah, judging by the pictures you already have some good swirlies going on.

HD Speed AIO would knock those out pretty easily on a da and make it look like glass and it is mild as far as aggression goes.

Just one comment, polishing by hand is a lesson in futility. You would be hard pressed to get those out by hand.

Using a cleaner wax by hand is in itself a major project. You will want a da at some point. I could seal your entire ride with a a da in about 20 minutes. No way can you get total coverage by hand in twice that time. Don't fear the da, embrace it. That Hyundai would be a great vehicle to practice on. While you're at it teach your wife too. Since she wanted the black car. Team work. I know down here in Florida it's impossible in the middle of the day to wash a black car with the blazing sun and get it dry before the dreaded water spots set in. And that's with or without a blow dryer. I have the AG DP Pro dryer too. I feel like I can dry faster with good waffle weave towels than any blower out there.I agree after washing down here in summer months is hard you have to dry very quickly starting on the top of the car first.I found I had to re wet some sections to dry.Totally different ballgame down here in the summer and I dread it every Year.

[Mike Phillips]

Hello, Thanks in advance for any of your comments.

So....I have a '15 Murano-Black. As hard as I tried I still ended up with a few micro marring, minor swirl marks (not from machine buffing) and just general little imperfections. One or two on the hood, an area on one door panel. That type of stuff.

I wash the vehicle frequently. I even use two rinse buckets and then spray my microfiber wash mitt with the hose before going back into the suds bucket. I use microfiber towels and chamois. But somehow I've ended up with these minor imperfections.




Two things working against you...


Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74234-clearcoats-scratch-sensitive.html)


Clearcoat paints have a characteristic called,


Scratch-Sensitive


This means even though the paints are very hard they still scratch very easily and because there's a colored layer of paint under the clear, the colored layer works to amplify and magnify the surface or topical scratches making them easy for the human eye to see.


This drives car enthusiasts up the wall.


It also confuses people to no end because it's hard for people to wrap their brains around the concept of how a car's paint can be very hard but then scratch so easily.


The hardness factor smacks you upside the head when you're first learning how to either hand or machine polish because you find out real fast removing the swirls out of a clear coat finish is not as easy at it sound like it should be.

Again, this is for people brand new to working on clearcoats, seasoned pros acquire the skills that make removing swirls and scratches for them very easy via experience.


Once a person completely understands and fully grasps how the hardness factor affects the time, energy and resources required to remove swirls and scratches out of a modern clearcoat finish the light bulb in their head turns >on< and then they understand why it's so important to make sure that ANYTHING that TOUCHES the paint needs to be of the highest quality you can obtain and there needs to be some thinking going on as to the way or manner in which you touch the paint.

In other words, once you figure all of the above out and then buff your car's paint out to the point that you're happy with it, now you have to be mindful of,


How "you" wash and dry it.
How "you" wipe it with any type of spray-on product.
How you let "someone else" wash it.
How you let "someone else" wipe it with any spray-on product or even touch it at all.


The above 4 things are how a car is "touched" the most for most people and most cars. (think about it).


Make sense?



Clearcoat paints are scratch-sensitive. They are harder than traditional single stage paints but even though they are harder they still scratch very easily and because they are hard it's difficult to get the scratches out.


Abrasive Technology
This leads into the next topic people discover and that is the most important factor that determines if swirls and scratches are removed WITHOUT the product, pad and process simply replacing one type of defect and replacing it with its own type of defects, (holograms or micro-marring), and that factor is the abrasive technology. The stuff inside the bottle.


So be careful how you work on your own car and if you let someone else work on your car make sure they are qualified.

This includes taking your beautiful brand new car to ANY type of car wash, (things touch your car's paint at a car wash).

Or if you take your car to the dealership to have the oil changed because dealerships love you so much they will have your car washed, (touched), by their car wash guys...


See these articles...

How to maintain a freshly waxed car (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/40056-how-maintain-freshly-waxed-car.html)

DON'T WASH CAR !!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/66855-don-t-wash-car.html)


Scratch your car for $5.00 (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/40142-scratch-your-car-5-00-a.html)

The reality of the 100% Hand Car Wash (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/40122-reality-100-hand-car-wash.html)


And the really BIG reason all of this is important?


Because clearcoats are THIN. The factory sprayed clear layer of paint on most new cars averages around 2 mils. That's thinner than the average post-it note.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_01.jpg



The next time you see a post-it note... feel it between your fingers... this is usually all it takes to drive home the point as to how thin the paint is on your beautiful, shiny car.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_02.jpg


There you go...


Win/Win
Please feel encouraged to share the link to this article with anyone you think needs to be brought up to speed about the paint on their car.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

As mentioned...


As a"Black is not a color, it's a full time job" (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/57621-black-not-color-s-full-time-job.html)



1956 Ford F150 paint polished by Mike Phillips circa 2006 in Escondido, California
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/400_1956_Ford_150_by_Mike_Phillips_002.jpghttp://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/715/400_1956_Ford_150_by_Mike_Phillips_001.jpg

The reason for this is because clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive and what this means but can sometimes be hard to wrap your mind around is that even though modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints, (the only two major paint systems that have been used since we stopped riding horses and started driving cars), they still will scratch easily.

Since your car is black, any defect shows up easily to your eyes.

It is very difficult to maintain a 100% swirls and scratch free finish on a daily drive with black paint. The people that I know that own black cars PURPOSEFULLY and keep them looking brand new all the time also do something to the paint every other week.

By "do something to the paint", I mean besides washing them carefully, they also machine apply a wax every other week or pay someone to machine apply a wax every other week.

By re-waxing often, fine swirls and scratches are either removed or masked, doesn't matter which because the end result is the same, a nice looking black finish.

You can do the same thing by using any premium quality finishing wax and some spray-on waxes.


White paint or silver metallic tends to be good choices of colors for people that don't want to see swirls and scratches because it's more difficult to see these types of defects on these light colors. It's not that the swirls and scratches are not there, it's just more difficult to see.


While I agree that nothing looks better than a car with a highly and correctly polished black finish, maintaining a black finish on a daily driver is a full time job. You will need to educate yourself on what I call the 3 P's, that is,


Paint
Products
Procedures

You need to know a little bit about each category in order to either do the job yourself or to hire someone and ensure they know what they are doing.


Educate Yourself
The best way to educate yourself is to read a lot on a forum like this, AutogeekOnline.net (http://www.autogeekonline.net/), watch videos on our YouTube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/Autogeek) and attend any detailing class you can clear your schedule and attend. If you can attend one of my Detailing Boot Camp Classes (http://www.autogeek.net/detailing-boot-camp.html) I guarantee you will not only learn a lot but you'll also have a lot of fun at the same time.



:)

[Mike Phillips]

Now on to some help for you...


It's pretty much impossible to keep a black clearcoat finish flawless if the car in question is a daily driver. Garage Queen? Sure. Daily Driver? No way. It's not you it's the paint and the color as explained in the two articles I posted.

Here's what you can do...

Apply a quality paint coating to the paint instead of a car wax or synthetic paint sealant.

Take a look at the Wolfgang Uber Ceramic Paint Coating - I posted a TON of pictures showing how to apply it and the amazing glass-like results you'll get. PLUS ceramic coatings resist LIGHT scratching. You still have to TOUCH the paint carefully.

Review & How-To: Wolfgang Uber Ceramic Paint Coating (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/new-car-care-products/96240-review-how-wolfgang-uber-ceramic-paint-coating.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=101375

Here's the amazing glass-like results I speak of...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/watermark.php?file=101372


Every time I see the owner he tells me he's won another trophy.

Take my word for it... lots of pictures showing the process in the article below. In a format you will NEVER find on Facebook.


Review & How-To: Wolfgang Uber Ceramic Paint Coating (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/new-car-care-products/96240-review-how-wolfgang-uber-ceramic-paint-coating.html)





:)

[Mike Phillips]

Next is you need to practice what I teach in my classes called,

The Gentle Approach to Washing a Car


Sorry to say I don't have a full blown article on the meat of this technique but I do have a video on our ROKU channel.

Here's my article on the opposite method and I think somewhere in this article I explain the gentle approach. Interestingly enough, I've never seen any other "guru" even address this topic anywhere... on a forum, in a video or on FB


The Aggressive Approach to Washing a Car (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/86146-aggressive-approach-washing-car.html)




And how I wash my personal cars is using a foam gun PLUS the gentle approach using a Microfiber Chenille Wash Mitt not the mitt you see in the below article.


How to wash a car with a foam gun (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74349-how-wash-car-foam-gun.html)


http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/2111/2006_SLK_350_028.jpg



Then blot the car dry or use something like the McKee's 37 Turbo Car Dryer.



Hope that helps...

For what it's worth.... I once owned a black Honda Pilot. After owing a black DAILY DRIVER I made the commitment to never own another black daily driver.

Now I WOULD own a black cool car, like a 1967 GTO Convertible. But not a mundane, normal, grocery-getter daily driver.


:)

[MattPersman]

I think you are wasting your time with the Klasse. But that is just my opinion your time would be much better served using something like Prima Amigo if you want to go the hand route. A machine is more efficient no doubt but many like to go the hand route. Some of these products work much better by hand than others.

It's just gonna be an ongoing battle find a product that gives the best look you can live with like Prima Amigo for example and use it when you feel you need it. It's a driver so it's very hard to keep perfect


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WeekendDIY]

Whoa....the man himself jumped in. I'm honored Mike. It's much appreciated.

I'll check out all the links/articles you posted over the weekend. I do have a PC-XP.

Not to be overly dramatic about this but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I am a bit bummed. Not kiss the dog and kick the wife type of bummed... LOL...Just feel like I've been kicked in the twig and berries, turn in your man card. Effort was there just bad execution I guess. I knew black was a PITA. Just washing it yesterday to take pictures within 30 minutes I had a fine layer of yellowish/green pollen developing. The reality has set in over the last few days and I have be enlightened.

Thanks for all of the tips and ideas guys. Even with the winter months I probably still averaged a wash every 3 weeks. Which in hindsight may not have been the best idea. Water has never NOT beaded though. I just want a mulligan. Get it back to close as perfect as possible and the way it looks change just about everything my approach as I move forward. Put some type of sealant/coating to protect the best I can (not just was like I had been) and keep the containments from sinking in so I won't have the urge to wash it so much. I realize most of it fixable and as I mentioned before I do have a "practice" vehicle to start with. Because I've done plenty of mechanical work on vehicles but car finish at this level (for a lack of a better way of putting it), not so much.

I must admit I have a bit of information overload. I truly appreciate all the suggestions for products to use. But man, outside of the basics I never paid attention to the amount of products to choose from. Klasse, HD, WG, McKee's, etc. I don't want to say it's overwhelming....just...WOW. I know everyone has their favorites and I would imagine the quality in these products are pretty close to each other. I guess I'll just have to buy a few different flavors and see what trips my trigger.

Again, I can't thank you guys enough for your comments. I'll unload the chamois use and stick to MF and look into some of the other products mentioned.

Peace and have a safe weekend.

[WeekendDIY]

Hello,

I Have a PC-XP and some HD products coming. I realize folks have there favorites and for the most part "generally" speaking the performance in pads are pretty close. Or maybe not. LOL

Anyway, I think I need more pads than what I already have (new). I have:

3 CG Hex Light Polishing-Blue
3 CG Hex Ultra light Finishing Pad-Red
3 CG Hex Finishing Pad-Black
1 CG Hex Light-Medium Polishing Pad-White

'15 Nissan Murano-Couple pics on Page 1.

I'm thinking a need more of one those four, or additions to (different color but don't think so for what I need to do), or maybe different brand. Do/Will the thinner LC pads be something better for my needs?

As always, thanks in advance.

[KneeDragr]

Also if the paint is super soft (which I believe newer GM's are) then that really adds to it.


His car is made by Nissan, and new GM paint is hard as rock ( at least on my Corvette and Volt ). Nissan is known for soft paint.

[PGBCruiser]

WeekendDIY,
hello! I have to say I feel like I'm reading my own posts! With the exception of having a mechanical background, I was; and still am to a large degree in your shoes as a newbie. The information and product choice can be overwhelming.
I too was pleasantly surprised last year when Mike replied to my first post to make sure I was comfortable with the project I was getting into. A few "Cars and Coffee" and two "Detailfest" events later and I've learned it is what we've all come to expect: Mike - and everyone at AG are great people and very generous with their knowledge.
My two cents would be follow Mike Phillips' tips to the letter where possible (I'd love to have an air dryer for the car; but it's not in the budget). As for product, I don't think Autogeek would sell anything that didn't meet their standards - which are high. I go with Meguiars and I'm adding in the McKees brand. They tend to have products for folks like us that need a simplified process.
What I would suggest (from my own experience) is to take a breath, make a simple step by step plan based on Mike's tutorials - and have fun! To quote Michael Stoops of Meguiars: this is supposed to be our therapy, not our reason for therapy. : )
Full disclosure, I have quite a few things I'd like to do to my car, and I still get paralysis from analysis! You are definitely on the right forum to get great advice from members and the Autogeek staff.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
PS... make sure the polisher stops spinning before lifting it off the car... my garage still has a few freckles from my first try : )
Peter

[WeekendDIY]

Hello,...Thanks for the pep talk PGB.

Between the never ending clouds and rain up here in VA for the last two weeks and the annual honey do spring list I'm slowly working my way towards working on my car. I will provide better pics when and if the sun ever comes out again to show exactly what I'm starting with. Supposedly tomorrow.

I want to thank Custmsprty. We have PM'ed a few times and he has been very helpful. The only reason I'm asking my question(s) here is I simply do not want to wear out my welcome of his generous offer to help with tips and advice. I'll save that for later if/when absolutely needed.

I've gone all in with 3D products. (I returned the Klasse Twins)
I have: 3D HD Adapt, Poxy, Speed, Polish, and Express.
I have new PC-XP and a Foam Cannon
A whole range of Orange, white, black, red, and blue polishing pads. A total of 16 pads
12 pack Forest Green Edgeless MF, 3 Mango Breeze, 8 pack Premium grade MF applicators
1 Waffle Weave Matter MF 25"X36"
Mequiars X2020 3 pack MF
Mequiars Clay kit
Mequiars G19216 Ultimate polish (more because I got a good price and to use for practice on my '02 Santa Fe)
2 MF wash Mitts
I hope that generally covers everything.

So------
Foam, wash while using multiple MF's towels
Rinse
Clay Bar
Rinse (Should I use Iron X next or at all????)
Adapt then Poxy (and next is when I figured I'd stop bugging Custmsprty)
Speed???? or Polish???? Or some other LSP or something different?

Every couple of days I keep coming back and reading threads, watching videos, monitoring Q & A's that interest me and I have questions(s) that pop into my head.
I do want to put a sealant on. But If I've read all of these product descriptions correctly I already have a sealant to use. But if not, I was thinking about C-Quartz or WG Ceramic coating. But do I really need to do that with what I already have?
When Mike says "when you buff or compound you're removing paint". Forgive me for what could be a really dumb A question. If you're removing paint how are you not removing the CC?
How often should polish or rather maybe not? Does that depend on variables? Is there a rule of thumb? twice a year?
Just a quick thank you to all of you guys and this forum. Seems like a great community. I appreciate your responses and patience. Just way too much information overload. LOL I do IT for a living but I’m confident I can tackle this and looking forward to getting started.
Thanks again.

[Whitewater25]

I thought I knew what I was doing before I found this site. Basics,yes but not to the degree they do here. Wealth of knowledge & happy to help makes this a great site. Once you get the range on the black,it won't seem so intimidating. Good call on the 3D products,I really like Speed topped with Poxy for my daily driver. Both are easy to use,hold up pretty well and easy to remove. I use a cordless leaf blower for drying my truck,it gets 15 min run time per battery & I dry it with one battery. It really does a good job getting water out of crevices & lug nuts on wheels so you won't have drips come to haunt you after you thought you got all the water. Good luck with your task