What makes wax bond to the clear coat?

[DavidAl]

Let's take a carnauba wax, for example. What makes carnauba wax stick to the clear coat, even after repeated washes, rain storms and other environmental conditions, for many months at a time.

Isn't wax an oil? Oil usually doesn't have bonding properties.

Thanks.

[TTQ B4U]

Leaving this hear as it's a good read and start to the discussion:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/31186-miscible-immiscible-wax-paint-sealant-bonding.html

[Setec Astronomy]

Isn't wax an oil?

No, wax is wax. And synthetic wax is silicone (usually).

[FUNX650]

What makes carnauba wax
stick to the clear coat...

I'm glad you made the distinction
between stick and bond.



What makes carnauba wax stick
to the clear coat, even after repeated
washes, rain storms and other
environmental conditions,
for many months at a time.

That kind of time period is quite a
stretch for Carnauba Waxes, IMO.



Isn't wax an oil?

•Microcrystalline Waxes are manufactured
through oil processing methods.

•Some car waxes contain "oily"-hydrocarbons,
(and Solvents), in their formulations.



Oil usually doesn't have
bonding properties.

•Silicone Oils do:
-Silicones are polymerized siloxanes (or polysiloxanes).
-Polysiloxanes, in and of themselves:
exhibit "bonding characteristics".
-Cross-linking, IMO, can be called: a type of bonding.



Bob

[ViperGuy21]

Bob, when you say cross-linking would be considered bonding, do you mean an intermolecular force(like a covalent or ioninc bond)or an intramolecular force(like LDF, dipole-dipole forces, or hydrogen bonding)?
I would think it's more of attractive intramolecular forces, but could see how it could be actual bonding(intermolecular)

[FUNX650]

What...no mention of van der Waals?!?! :laughing:


Bob

[PiPUK]

No, wax is wax. And synthetic wax is silicone (usually).

I think what he is alluding to is that the chemistry is not dissimilar, which would be correct. There is rarely much of a bond, it is little more than what you would get with an oil - it lasts mostly because it is not water miscible and is non-volatile.

As a related point, silicones are not synthetic waxes. Silicones are basically polymeric chains which compare with oils more than anything else. Synthetic waxes are almost always still hydrocarbon waxes, just not naturally occurring. From my perspective, such synthetic waxes are enormously useful and lets you do things that you cannot do with a natural wax. Silicones are a further additive which give numerous additional benefits.


Bob, when you say cross-linking would be considered bonding, do you mean an intermolecular force(like a covalent or ioninc bond)or an intramolecular force(like LDF, dipole-dipole forces, or hydrogen bonding)?
I would think it's more of attractive intramolecular forces, but could see how it could be actual bonding(intermolecular)

Crosslinking will tend to be covalent but it is important to realise that this is bonding within your LSP film and has zero guarantee of bonding to the surface.

Basically a regular wax (there are exceptions, but we are taking hybrid type materials) does not have any strength of 'bond' the the surface. It is very weakly bound and remains in place because it is water repellent and non-volatile. Sealants will have a more definite bond to the surface and a proper coating will go one step further.

[Setec Astronomy]

As a related point, silicones are not synthetic waxes.

Are you making a distinction between a synthetic wax and a sealant? I wasn't; I was just alluding to the fact that many "waxes" are sealants or have a sealant component.

Thanks for the other corrections/clarifications.

[ViperGuy21]

What...no mention of van der Waals?!?! :laughing:


Bob

Van Der Waals is just an all-inclusive term for IMF's from what I've learned, I just broke it down a little farther.
And sorry, I got my inter- and intra- backwards lol

[Paul A.]

And sorry, I got my inter- and intra- backwards lol

I hate when that happens...

[silverfox]

Boy this thread really cleared that up.

[Mike Honcho]

46897

[FUNX650]

Yea; but:
Tell someone there are 600 billion stars
in the universe, and they'll believe you...


Bob

[PiPUK]

Are you making a distinction between a synthetic wax and a sealant? I wasn't; I was just alluding to the fact that many "waxes" are sealants or have a sealant component.

Thanks for the other corrections/clarifications.

Absolutely - most synthetic waxes are just waxes, they are chemically very similar to carnauba/montan/etc. but just happen to have been made synthetically. They won't crosslink, they won't have any notable bond. The benefit with them is that their precise character can be tinkered - you can change the melting point, the hardness (etc.), which you cannot really do with a natural wax. 'Sealant' is poorly defined but a plain and simple wax should not be considered as such.

There are waxes which are sealants - they basically are a wax which is also effectively a bonding silicone polymer, all in one. Most consumer wax products are not this. They are blends of standard waxes and silicone chemistries - lower grade 'hybrids' and technology which is 20 or more years old.

Silicones are oils - so a silicone is equivalent to something like kerosine, but with silicon chemistry. So totally distinct from both wax and sealant.

[KBsToy]

Van Der Waals is just an all-inclusive term for IMF's from what I've learned, I just broke it down a little farther.
And sorry, I got my inter- and intra- backwards lol

Now I really got a headache :)