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  1. #21
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    Re: The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Oldz View Post
    Perhaps I may be able to help here a bit to further describe Holograms.


    Rotary Instilled Holograms= These are tiny directional scratches caused by rotary polishers.

    Mike has posted great pictures here but what pictures do not provide is the dancing effect that these holograms give as you walk around or change the light angles(think of the northern lights type of effect.) The reason rotary holograms dance is due to the nature of the one directional scratch pattern left behind that only a rotary polisher can perform. Your eye catches and doesn't catch the light refraction from the scratch at certain angles as you walk around giving you the appearance of dancing or being just above the paint. The reason you are able to see where the buffer has been is simply due to the last section of the pad to touch the paint generally leaves the lines we all call holograms.



    DA Instilled Micro-Marring= These are tiny Multi-directional scratches caused by DA type polishers.

    Micro-marring is also called DA haze or Tick marks on the forums. These are tiny scratches often from a compounding process with a DA. The main difference between micro-marring is that it is a multi-directional scratch pattern. If you look at it and walk around, it won't dance like rotary holograms. This is due to the consistent scratch pattern left behind from a DA. This scratch pattern is generally constant thru all observable angles thus not giving the dancing effect. It appears more of a dullness with visible trails running thru it sometimes due to the center line of the pad/polish combo leaving the most micro scratches behind


    Hope this helps.
    Nice Jim!


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  2. #22
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Oldz View Post
    Perhaps I may be able to help here a bit to further describe Holograms.


    Rotary Instilled Holograms= These are tiny directional scratches caused by rotary polishers.

    Mike has posted great pictures here but what pictures do not provide is the dancing effect that these holograms give as you walk around or change the light angles(think of the northern lights type of effect.) The reason rotary holograms dance is due to the nature of the one directional scratch pattern left behind that only a rotary polisher can perform. Your eye catches and doesn't catch the light refraction from the scratch at certain angles as you walk around giving you the appearance of dancing or being just above the paint. The reason you are able to see where the buffer has been is simply due to the last section of the pad to touch the paint generally leaves the lines we all call holograms.



    DA Instilled Micro-Marring= These are tiny Multi-directional scratches caused by DA type polishers.

    Micro-marring is also called DA haze or Tick marks on the forums. These are tiny scratches often from a compounding process with a DA. The main difference between micro-marring is that it is a multi-directional scratch pattern. If you look at it and walk around, it won't dance like rotary holograms. This is due to the consistent scratch pattern left behind from a DA. This scratch pattern is generally constant thru all observable angles thus not giving the dancing effect. It appears more of a dullness with visible trails running thru it sometimes due to the center line of the pad/polish combo leaving the most micro scratches behind


    Hope this helps.

    That's some darn good writing there Jim and some excellent descriptions on the differences.


    Here's some pictures of holograms that show the 3D effect or as you say, how the holograms dance in the paint. It the 3D or hologram effect has a LOT more impact when you're actually looking at the paint in person but I think these pictures capture the idea...


    Holograms from a rotary buffer
    Here's a few shots taken in the sun. Note how the swirls in the paint closest to the windshield have an almost floating or 3D effect, this is where the term hologram comes from in the context of talking about swirls instilled by a rotary buffer.





    Here's a section of the above photo cropped out and in full size...

    Often times you'll hear or read about "Holograms" or "Buffer Trails". These are both interchangeable terms for Rotary Buffer Swirls. If you look at the below swirls they almost seem to have a 3D or floating in the paint affect, this is the appearance characteristic from which we get the word hologram.





    Mustangs are beautiful cars but not when the paint shimmers with swirls... the paint is supposed to shimmer with a swirl-free shine.






    Here's the same car but now we're using the flash from our camera to light up and reveal the horrendous swirls...






    I don't think I've ever seen a car so swirled out by the mis-use of a rotary buffer...






    The zillions of swirls in the clear layer makes the paint look hazy and blocks your view of the black paint under the clear top coat. This reduces the darkness of the paint making the true black look gray.





    The above pictures are from a Mustang I detailed back in 2011 when Jason Rose (while still at Meguiar's), sent me lab samples and beta versions of the pads and products in the (at the time), new Meguiar's DA Microfiber Correction System.


    Review: Meguiar’s DA Microfiber Polishing System - Hologram removal by Mike Phillips



    Meguiar’s DA Microfiber Polishing System





    Of course I went on to undo the damage....

    Here are the end results...








    And here's Rob, the happy owner in his swirl free black Mustang...







    Behind the scenes story....


    Todd Helme, a good friend and a peer in our industry uses this picture in some of his RUPES Power Point Presentations to show what holograms look like




    In the classes I've sat in on, he always jokes about how Mike Phillips buffed this car out....

    Ha ha... pretty funny Todd!

    I hope you share that I am responsible for the "after" pictures, not the before pictures.


    Mike Phillips
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  4. #23
    Senior Member Dr Oldz's Avatar
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    Re: The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer

    Thought I would bring this thread up again as I had someone ask me about holograms.

    I just posted some of my thoughts on the new Rupes rotary and I got asked: “How do I finish down hologram free with a rotary all the time?”

    DA polishing is easy and ANYONE can learn how to use one in a short amount of time. Look at Mike Phillips classes and look at some of the stunning professional results people in those classes achieved with DA polishers!! Mike always says most never machine polished prior to that instance. His classes are a hands on approach so they learn thru use very quickly.

    Now looking at rotary polishing: you can learn the basics quickly but to finish properly takes weeks, months even years to master. There is a lot to think about when rotary polishing. Buffing off an edge rather then into and edge, using caution on high spots, speeds and the list goes on.

    So to answer the question: After 30 years of rotary polishing I can NOT finish 100% swirl and hologram free on EVERY paint system. Some paints just require a DA to finish no matter what you try. I can on a LOT but not all. I have even had situations where no matter what I did I left a tiny amount of micro marring with a DA on super soft paint. (Hadda rely on the wax to fill it)

    I personally don’t believe ANYONE who claims they can finish 100% on every paint system.

    Very often when doing a multi step correction, the rotary blazes thru the compounding phase and then a DA will produce the show car finish.

    I get asked why even bother with a Rotary when there are so many advancements in DA polishers and buffing liquid technology. For me the answer is simple. I love rotary polishing and it is the fastest method for correction. Time is money and I like to work fast while still producing fantastic results.

    Hopefully Mike Phillips will comment. I’m sure he will give the same answer to that question and even add more!!
    Jim

  5. #24
    Senior Member Paul A.'s Avatar
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    Re: The word holograms means a specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint using a rotary buffer

    Thanks, Jim, for resurrecting a very informative post and info from Mike.

    I too come from a long (and somewhat arduous) journey of rotary experience. I couldn't agree more with your experiemce and comments.

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