Rotary VS Dual Action for Compounding

[dlc95]

I have not rephrased MY question, I have only asked to confirm if/then statements, provided others input be true statements

I gave my opinion in the first post.

Cool. That'll work.

[Mike Phillips]

Well for what it's worth...

In keeping with what I already posted in this thread about the desired results I want to achieve and the time I have to work with, I'm going out to the garage to machine compound an SUV using the FLEX 3401.

Speed + correction ability + finishing ability + it doesn't care one whit what the shape of the panel is...

I'm testing out the new GYEON compound, look for my review tomorrow.

AND - I've posted a bunch of Facebook Live videos to my FB page today.

See my Signature Line to find the real Mike Phillips as there are tons of us out there.

[SWETM]

I think the difference in the technical term is rpm vs opm. And what kind of pad and compound you are useing. Then you have the size to take in the mix also. And the speed you can have on the machines with this combos. And at last what kind of clearcoat you are going to work on. The variables are so many so I don't think you can say excactly which is the most efficient if you don't test it side by side.

Which do you think is the most efficient machine on a clearcoat that is in the middle of hardness. You have let say menzerna fg400 as compound and a lake country orange thinpro pad. Defects is so bad that a polish don't cut it but a rotary with wool par is to aggressive. You have a flex 14-2 rotary and rupes 21mm mark 2 with and flex 3401 and gg6. All have 5" backing plates and the user is good to hold up the highest opm as possible on the free spinning tools.

Which user get the most efficient cutting done?

I think that I got the most variables in that description. Help me out otherwise.

[jslym777]

Yeah, i wonder how many times it has to be said.

Is heat completely unrelated to cut? Or can it be that the two are just not positively correlated? Can a long throw or forced DA produce as much heat as a rotary? How much heat does it take to burn the paint?

[mwoywod]

I think the difference in the technical term is rpm vs opm. And what kind of pad and compound you are useing. Then you have the size to take in the mix also. And the speed you can have on the machines with this combos. And at last what kind of clearcoat you are going to work on. The variables are so many so I don't think you can say excactly which is the most efficient if you don't test it side by side.

Which do you think is the most efficient machine on a clearcoat that is in the middle of hardness. You have let say menzerna fg400 as compound and a lake country orange thinpro pad. Defects is so bad that a polish don't cut it but a rotary with wool par is to aggressive. You have a flex 14-2 rotary and rupes 21mm mark 2 with and flex 3401 and gg6. All have 5" backing plates and the user is good to hold up the highest opm as possible on the free spinning tools.

Which user get the most efficient cutting done?

I think that I got the most variables in that description. Help me out otherwise.

There are still so many variables unfortunately. Is the paint rock hard or soft and porous? If it's soft and porous the best option is likely the GG6 because it produces the least amount of heat. If it's a vehicle with a lot of flat and concave surfaces the Rupes 21mk2 would like best the best option, if it's a small vehicle with a ton of trim, convex curves, and tight areas that require a tool that provides more precision either the Rotary or GG6 would be a better option.

It all comes down to the user and their preference and comfort level. I am most comfortable with rotary and lambswool. I like how it allows more airflow through the fibers which keeps the pad and paint cool. It's vibration free and offers amazing precision. I know I have far less risk of making a mistake with the rotary than I do with the 21mm tool.

With a 21mm I have to be far more diligent about taping trim prior to correcting because the large throw requires me to bring the pad directly over some trim areas. There is really no right or wrong answer because it depends on the operator. I do a lot of wet sanding jobs to level orange peel on repaints and I find that it takes me far less time and the paint stays far cooler with a rotary than it does with a long-throw and a microfiber. But maybe if I was more proficient on a long-throw polisher I would feel differently. There is no way of testing because we are all different and we all have different styles.

One thing I will say is that I haven't used foam on a rotary in several years. When guys burn paint with the rotary polisher it tends to be with foam. Foam creates more heat and friction which IMO any other polisher option is a better option for cutting than a rotary and a foam cutting pad. I know that's ironic considering in my profile photo I'm using the rotary with foam.lol. That was several years ago though. I was just a boy!

[Calendyr]

Also, it is a misconception about a rotary EASILY burning paint. If you have not done any testing for yourself, how can you make this claim?

For one every book I have read have mentioned it. And I have seen many cars with burned paint from previous details done in car washes. I don't need to kill myself to know that pointing a gun at my head and pulling the trigger can be fatal.

[Ronin47]

Agree, rotary best with wool and what I use them for but lately no real need for rotary anymore. Carpro Clear Cut on Mille and 21 MKII does everything.

[Calendyr]

Of course, not all jobs require that much compounding, and if you can achieve results in one step, efficiently, then you should take it. But also consider how long you are spending on your single step. If it takes you 20 minutes to work one panel in a single step compared to a 2 step that takes you 7 minutes to cut and 8 minutes to finish, you're still better off with the 2 step process.

Well... yes and no....

Might save a bit of time on the work but you have to take into account that changing pad (and machine), prepping the pad, starting the work and the wiping the pannel off also takes time... so in the end you are very likelly taking a lot longer with the 2 step than with a 1 step (or course the result will be better as well).

For 1 step, I usually do them as I would do a compound, so slow arm movement and doing about 6 section passes. Doing an entire car takes me about 3 hours. When I do a 2 step, it usually takes me about twice as long overall (using a Long throw DA). If I was to use a rotary + DA as you suggest, I think I could probably shave off maybe an hour out of it. Maybe I am wrong... you seems to prefer rotary polishers, so how long does it take you to compound a whole car?

[Mike Phillips]

Is heat completely unrelated to cut? Or can it be that the two are just not positively correlated?

Heat is a by-product of friction, when it comes to polishing paint, it's actually an un-wanted by-product.


I think just the other day ago here on the forum I was posting about the myths about heat. Anyone remember the thread?

[jslym777]

Well... yes and no....

Might save a bit of time on the work but you have to take into account that changing pad (and machine), prepping the pad, starting the work and the wiping the pannel off also takes time... so in the end you are very likelly taking a lot longer with the 2 step than with a 1 step (or course the result will be better as well).

For 1 step, I usually do them as I would do a compound, so slow arm movement and doing about 6 section passes. Doing an entire car takes me about 3 hours. When I do a 2 step, it usually takes me about twice as long overall (using a Long throw DA). If I was to use a rotary + DA as you suggest, I think I could probably shave off maybe an hour out of it. Maybe I am wrong... you seems to prefer rotary polishers, so how long does it take you to compound a whole car?

I might do a video or look for a video online about burning paint. As you said, you've read about it, and have seen it. But do you know what it takes to produce it? As DA's have gotten better with material and product, so has Rotary. Rotaries aren't used at max speed anymore. Again, maybe I'll do a demo on this because this keeps being brought up as the argument even though I said to leave it out for discussion purposes.

Changing machine and pad doesn't matter because that is a wash whether you're working one tool or two, still have to clean the pad or pads as often.