Wolfgang Exterior Trim Sealant Petroleum & Silicate free? Water Based?

[WRXINXS]

ShaunD - Thanks for clearing silicates vs silicones up for me!

Bob - I admit I do not have much in depth knowledge in this matter. I just have heard from reading different product descriptions that water based products are safer for plastics. And somewhere down the line I had head about Silicone being bad for plastics (Perhaps from reading the 303 aerospace description?). But, from my experience the water based products I have been using do not last too long so I was looking for something that would last longer and still safe for plastics. I am thinking of trying out the pearl because it is water based and on BOGO right now and seems to last for many weeks based on the reviews. In the past I have used 303 aerospace and 1z Einszett Vinyl rubber care and protectant. I find that the 1z is slightly more waterproof but still "runs" after a hard rain.

~Drew

[FUNX650]

I don't believe it is the oily type of silicone like found in Armorall

I'm assuming your referring to the Original Armorall Protectant which BTW, was reformulated a few years back...And is still labeled as The Original Armorall Protectant.

Even though the "ingredients" are proprietary....They will go as far as saying one of them is: a Silicone Emulsion .

How much difference, then, is there between a silicone-emulsion and a siloxane-emulsion?

For that matter: Are there any differences between an 'emulsion' and a 'carrier' as it relates to silicone/siloxanes?

Does this mean the new reformulated version of Armorall is a DMS or a PDMS product?

I keep in mind that Armorall was the forerunner in this field of car-care, and set the template for all others to follow. Some folks will say that other, similar products may have even surpassed them...Beat them at their own game, as it were!

One more thought:
Does vehicle paint have any silicone as one of its "ingredients"?




Bob

[FUNX650]

ShaunD - Thanks for clearing silicates vs silicones up for me!

Bob - I admit I do not have much in depth knowledge in this matter. I just have heard from reading different product descriptions that water based products are safer for plastics. And somewhere down the line I had head about Silicone being bad for plastics (Perhaps from reading the 303 aerospace description?). But, from my experience the water based products I have been using do not last too long so I was looking for something that would last longer and still safe for plastics. I am thinking of trying out the pearl because it is water based and on BOGO right now and seems to last for many weeks based on the reviews. In the past I have used 303 aerospace and 1z Einszett Vinyl rubber care and protectant. I find that the 1z is slightly more waterproof but still "runs" after a hard rain.

~Drew

HI Drew...

Big difference between "water-based" and "water-proof".

Just like waxes...The trim products being discussed are re-newable...must be re-applied when their life-cycle has expired. This is an axiom that is applicable for those that are either water-based or petroleum-based, IMHO.

303 and 1Z are excellent products in their own right...As I stated: Just needs to be re-newed every now and then.



Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Without going deep and this isn't targeted at the OP, just chiming in...


When a chemist makes a product the ingredients they use normally serve two functions,

• Benefit the material they are being applied to.
• Benefit the process, that is benefit the application and removal of the product.

Besides that, people have knee-jerk reactions to the words,

• Petroleum
• Petroleum Distillates
• Silicone

But these are very generic catch-all terms for a huge category of products and not all of them are evil.

For example here's something I've been posting for years...

Just to note, there are all kinds of "Petroleum Distillates", for example Chap Stick brand lip balm which is made from 44% Petrolatums




I once asked chemist about solvents used in car care products and he said it's the quality of the solvents that matter and all too often the general public just lumps all solvents into the same category.


He said,

"there are good solvents and bad solvent, the way you make a good solvent is take all the icky things out of the bad solvent"


He actually went more in-depth than that but the above was his initial answers. Here's the deal, the more refining you do to a bad solvent to make it a good solvent the more it costs...

This goes back to, you get what you pay for because you can't offer a product at a low price using costly ingredients, you won't make a profit and you'll go out of business.

Good business is making a profit, that way you and your company and your products endure over time. Bad business is not making a profit, thus you go out of business and you can't help anyone.

That's why I'm a big fan of win/win business, that is everyone wins. For the customer they get a product that does what the manufacture claims it will do, the customer uses it and the product solves their problem, that is this person's profit. The seller makes enough money to cover all costs and overhead and still has something leftover, that's their profit.

Typically, if you smell a product and it has a strong oder of solvents, the odor you're smelling are the V.O.C's. These are generally speaking the icky things, a good solvent has had them removed.

Also just to note, water is a solvent and an abrasive but most people don't ever think of it this way... it dissolves mud off a muddy 4-wheel drive and it carved out the Grand Canyon.

Mothers put Baby Oil on baby skin all the time with no ill effects and Baby Oils is Mineral Oil which is a Petroleum Distillate.

[Mike Phillips]

I find that the 1z is slightly more waterproof but still "runs" after a hard rain.

~Drew

One issue with dressings for plastics is plastic doesn't absorb very well, so dressings tend to be topical.


It's natural for people to be curious about what's inside the bottle, but as Bob pointed out wax companies tend to be very secretive about sharing proprietary information just like the majority of all companies in any industry.

My friend John Dillon once gave me some advice for dealing with questions about "what's in the bottle" when I ran the MOL forum and it went like this,

"Instead of putting the focus on what's in the bottle, focus on the performance of the product"

So ask questions... that's normal but sometimes you just have to put your trust in the name on the label and trust that the chemists actually know what they're doing and create products that are safe for the surface they are being applied to and will perform as advertised.


:0

[ShaunD]

Thanks Mike for sharing some of your wealth of knowledge and experience. It is true that ignorance is bliss. Not directed at the OP/anyone, but we all take people's words and what we read and hear as gospel too often and base it on a lack of a full understanding/comprehension of the subject matter.

Like Mike pointed out, with solvents, as is the case with a lot of things in manufacturing, you take out the bad in a product/chemical to make it better/safer, but that can make for more expensive products.

Petroleum in its original/natural state would never sell as the products that are made from refining it(cleaning it). Most people don't know a product is good or bad from the chemicals that are in it, but from the good or bad that is spoken of those chemicals.


To know the generalized name for a common formula of elements/compound leaves a lot to be learned about the sub-elements/categories of that common name group/category for a formula, e.g. silicones, silanes. From my understanding of the chemistry I researched siloxanes are silicon minus a hydrogen atom, which to my knowledge makes the element less acidic there for safer.

All this being said you really need a chemistry degree or strong knowledge of chemistry to understand and explain what makes certain silicones better than others and what groups they actually fall into, as their true names are not silicones.

Along the line of Mike's point and what makes certain silicone/polymer based products better/safer for particular surfaces(plastics/vinyls) is the refinement/rearranging/restructuring of elements and formulas which typically make them more expensive products do to more work going into making them.


Please do not quote me as I am not a chemist but just trying to help us all understand this subject a little better.

[Mike Phillips]

One more thought:
Does vehicle paint have any silicone as one of its "ingredients"?

Bob

I think I touch on that in this article, I didn't read the entire thing so I don't remember off-hand...

The Role Silicone Plays in Car Care Products



I remember hearing a tidbit about silicone being used in automotive paints as a mandate by the EPA for a number of beneficial reasons...

I think I've actually typed about this on a forum somewhere, could be MOL or another one...

[FUNX650]

Thanks Mike for sharing some of your wealth of knowledge and experience.

....but we all take people's words and what we read and hear as gospel too often and base it on a lack of a full understanding/comprehension of the subject matter.

All this being said you really need a chemistry degree or strong knowledge of chemistry to understand and explain what makes certain silicones better than others and what groups they actually fall into, as their true names are not silicones.

Please do not quote me as I am not a chemist but just trying to help us all understand this subject a little better.

I agree!!!

Thanks for your post ShaunD.

-All-in-all...That was the point of what I was trying to get to:

-A little research into the basics of what products contain (don't really have to be a Chemist by profession).
-"Word of mouth" is fine to also take under consideration/advisement...Along with personal usage.
-It doesn't hurt to garner info from all the resources one can.
-And as always....Empirical results may differ from lab results.(YMMV, so to speak)

-Chemists formulate products by what they're told, by their bosses (manufacturers) what they desire to accomplish. They are remunerated for doing so.
-Being hush-hush about the actual "ingredients" (unless they must be listed on a MSDS) is probably part of their overall salary package.

-Being commiserate, though, about the "ways and means" "The Marketers" of those particular products (the ones that they have so secretively blended) is espoused to potential customers...IMHO...is not a payable emotion.



Bob

[WRXINXS]

So would the Wolfgang exterior trim sealant be safe for my plastic & Rubber?

[Mike Phillips]

So would the Wolfgang exterior trim sealant be safe for my plastic & Rubber?

Yes.