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Thread: Wolfgang Twins

  1. #1
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    Wolfgang Twins

    Wolfgang Twins


    On the recommend of several forum members, I bought the Wolfgang "Twins" - Total Swirl Remover and Finishing Glaze. Got them on BOGO a few weeks ago. The weather in PA finally cleared enough yesterday to try them out on my metallic charcoal grey 2008 RAV4. The products were even easier to use than they say. They really are foolproof and results are fantastic. My RAV wasn't all that bad, just light spiderweb swrils all over from 3 years of daily use. It took me about half the car with the TSR to get the techniques Mike P talks about in his articles and videos, so the TSR took me 2 hrs with a few breaks. The FG went much faster - about and hour, but my wife buffed for me (thanks, hon).

    Both the TSR and FG are very easy to use. Since my car had only fine swirls I followed Mike's instructions of using the least agressive method and chose a flat white LC pad. I started with a speed of a little less than 5 on the PC. After a bit, it became clear that this was too slow to break down the TSR effectively so I bumped to 5.5. That worked perfect. You could see the TSR break from opaque to clear as the diminishing abrasives broke down and you could see the paint gloss.

    After I got the pad primed with a couple sprays of DP NR cut to QD strength and a circle of product, each panel took 3 to 4 pea-sized dots for product. I doubt I used more than 2 oz for the whole car. The product removes with just a light buffing from a microfiber towel. A newb couldn't ask for an easier product to use.

    Using Mike's "clean-on-the-fly" technique, the pad stayed so clean I only used one for the whole car. I did mod the technique a bit - I sprayed the pad with 3 - 4 shots of QD and then balled the terry cloth rag as I held it against the pad. That cleaned the pad perfectly.

    I chose a flat grey LC pad for the FG. I used the same speed setting. Again, you can see the FG break down and the paint gloss if you watch closely. If anything, the FG buffs off even easier. I followed the FG with Menz Powerlock as the LSP sealant. I'm gonna add a coat of Collinite 845 later this week. I finished too late to do it yesterday, and I was dead anyway :-).

    One thing I would do differently is not tape so much. I did fully tape the car, covering all panel seams so polish didn't get into places it would be tough to remove. I think this is overkill. You use so little product it's not going to pack into the seams. Next time I'm just gonna tape moulding and places I could bump with the DA like door handles and the mirrors.

    I highly recommend the WG "Twins". Very user-friendly and they do a super job as advertised.

    Sorry, no photos. It was still very cloudy in PA yesterday and the digital would not pick up the correction. Maybe the sun will come out today and I'll shoot some after shots.

  2. #2
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    On the recommend of several forum members, I bought the Wolfgang "Twins" - Total Swirl Remover and Finishing Glaze. Got them on BOGO a few weeks ago. The weather in PA finally cleared enough yesterday to try them out on my metallic charcoal grey 2008 RAV4. The products were even easier to use than they say.

    They really are foolproof and results are fantastic.
    I would agree with everything but that last sentence is what makes these two products a great choice for anyone new to machine polishing. Thanks for taking the time to share you're experience, which mimics mine and lots of other people's experience.

    The Total Swirl Remover is not an aggressive compound but a medium type polish excellent for removing swirls and scratches as long as they're not too deep or the paint is to hard. The buffing cycle or what I like to call the play time for both products is excellent and wipe-off is usually very easy too and that's always nice because working with products that don't wipe off easily is a real paint plus you risk re-instilling scratches anytime you have to fight to get product residue off the paint.



    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post

    My RAV wasn't all that bad, just light spiderweb swirls all over from 3 years of daily use. It took me about half the car with the TSR to get the techniques Mike P talks about in his articles and videos, so the TSR took me 2 hrs with a few breaks. The FG went much faster - about and hour, but my wife buffed for me (thanks, hon).
    That sounds about right... the first step will always take the longest and it should as this is where you're removing the defects, if the defects are not removed in the first step then they'll likely be there at the final wipe-off. Now this is okay if they are deeper defects because sometimes it's better to learn to live with the deeper defects than it is to remove them especially if the car in question is a daily driver.

    The follow-up step, or in this case the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze step should go much faster as at this point you're not trying to remove defects, just remove any defects left by the first step and then maximize gloss and clarity. I use the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze to finish out black paint that I want to test other products on because it finishes out so nicely even after chemically stripping the paint.


    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Both the TSR and FG are very easy to use.
    Again, a great reason I like to recommend them to anyone new to machine polishing.


    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Since my car had only fine swirls I followed Mike's instructions of using the least aggressive method and chose a flat white LC pad. I started with a speed of a little less than 5 on the PC. After a bit, it became clear that this was too slow to break down the TSR effectively so I bumped to 5.5. That worked perfect. You could see the TSR break from opaque to clear as the diminishing abrasives broke down and you could see the paint gloss.
    Sounds about right, especially if you're using a PC 7424XP, the 5.5 or full-out to the 6.0 is the norm for most correction work.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Using Mike's "clean-on-the-fly" technique, the pad stayed so clean I only used one for the whole car. I did mod the technique a bit - I sprayed the pad with 3 - 4 shots of QD and then balled the terry cloth rag as I held it against the pad. That cleaned the pad perfectly.
    I think in a recent video I showed spraying a used pad with XMT Pad Cleaner and then using a terry cloth towel to clean the pad on the fly and spray or two of pad cleaner really does help to get the residue off the pad. QD should also work as most polishes are water-soluble, at least to some level.


    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    I chose a flat grey LC pad for the FG. I used the same speed setting. Again, you can see the FG break down and the paint gloss if you watch closely. If anything, the FG buffs off even easier. I followed the FG with Menz Powerlock as the LSP sealant. I'm gonna add a coat of Collinite 845 later this week. I finished too late to do it yesterday, and I was dead anyway :-).
    I like the Power Lock, it's a very good paint sealant and as long as you apply a thin coat it will dry fast and wipe-off so so easy... By the time you wash, clay, correct, polish and wax any car, you're ready for a wax or paint sealant that dries fast and wipes off easy.



    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    One thing I would do differently is not tape so much. I did fully tape the car, covering all panel seams so polish didn't get into places it would be tough to remove. I think this is overkill. You use so little product it's not going to pack into the seams. Next time I'm just gonna tape moulding and places I could bump with the DA like door handles and the mirrors.
    Good points, most people tend to overuse product and this leads to more splatter and product residue on plastic and rubber trim. Another thing a person can do is to just be careful when working around rubber and plastic trim so as not to cream it out with your buffing pad.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    I highly recommend the WG "Twins". Very user-friendly and they do a super job as advertised.

    Sorry, no photos. It was still very cloudy in PA yesterday and the digital would not pick up the correction. Maybe the sun will come out today and I'll shoot some after shots.
    Thank you for the first hand testimoney...

    Did any of your neighbors come over and check out your detailing project?


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  3. #3
    Senior Member silverfox's Avatar
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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Mike recommended the Wolfgang twins a long while back when I was first playing around with machine polishing (I was one of those old fashioned hands-only guy for far too long), and I still go back to them as I like trying out other products. But truth be told, the WG twins have never let me down, and I'm not sure anybody can ask for more than that.

    Mike told me that in most cases, the WG twins would be all that I would need to face just about any situation (barring something that would require a deep correction which TSR could not handle), and boy, I'm glad I took his advice.

    The only change I made, was scrapping the 6.5" pads that came with the PC kit, and replacing them with 5.5" flat pads. I like the hydro-tech pads, particularly the tangerine pad to go along with WG Finishing glaze.
    In my day we didn't have the Internet, iPods,iPads, or smart phones....but we had some really bad-azz cars.

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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Hear ya on the pads. I lucked out with all of the forum experience and went with 5.5 LC flat pads. The Menx PL comes with a red 6.5 CCS. It's OK for sealant, but you could tell the DA really wasn't spinning it as efficiently as the 5.5.

    Fortunately, neither of our cars are swirled that bad so the WG had no problems clearing the defects on my RAV. I'm looking forward to doing my wife's black Lexus now that I have the process down. I didn't let the dealership touch it so there are only some very minor swirls and hazing.

    I am glad I went with the WG twins. They are so easy to use it's surprising that they aren't more popular. With the Megs DA MF system coming out right after I bought the pads and polishes, I thought maybe I should have waited. But the stuff was so easy to use I'm glad I went this route. Besides, I wanted to use a sealant so I would have had to strip the last step of the Megs system anyway.

    Yeah, the twins cost a good bit more than cheaper polishes, but since I used so very little product and got them on BOGO, I'll have enough for years. Ditto for the Menz PL. I might have used a a couple ounces.

  5. #5
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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    I would agree with everything but that last sentence ....
    OK, maybe I got a bit carried away with how easy they were , but anytime a total beginner can read some basic instruction, pick up a product and get great results, that's pretty foolproof.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    The Total Swirl Remover is not an aggressive compound but a medium type polish excellent for removing swirls and scratches as long as they're not too deep or the paint is to hard. The buffing cycle or what I like to call the play time for both products is excellent and wipe-off is usually very easy too and that's always nice because working with products that don't wipe off easily is a real paint plus you risk re-instilling scratches anytime you have to fight to get product residue off the paint.
    After reading some of the horror stories here with pads clogging, dusting, etc., I really appreciated the long work time. And both products wipe off very easy. Like I said, we did just a quick buff. When my wife doesn't complain, you know it's cleaning up easy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    That sounds about right... the first step will always take the longest and it should as this is where you're removing the defects, if the defects are not removed in the first step then they'll likely be there at the final wipe-off. Now this is okay if they are deeper defects because sometimes it's better to learn to live with the deeper defects than it is to remove them especially if the car in question is a daily driver.
    I still think I will get the time way down next time. I really didn't catch on to the right speed and how long to polish each panel until about halfway thru with the TSR. That's why I was able to go so quick with the FG - I learned what to look for. In fact, with the FG I went more by how the product looked as it broke down than with counting passes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    Again, a great reason I like to recommend them to anyone new to machine polishing.
    Ditto that about a hundred times over. It's as easy as waxing. That's why I said foolproof. I relent and make that virtually foolproof as long as you aren't a complete klutz and RTFM .


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    I think in a recent video I showed spraying a used pad with XMT Pad Cleaner and then using a terry cloth towel to clean the pad on the fly and spray or two of pad cleaner really does help to get the residue off the pad. QD should also work as most polishes are water-soluble, at least to some level.
    I used DP NR cut to QD strength. Probably why I had success. Not sure if a regualr QD would give the same results. I also found that balling the terry cloth worked a lot better than just holding the pad against the cloth flat in your hand. I worked the ball from center out and then back again a couple times - like you'd use a brush. Then spun to dry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    I like the Power Lock, it's a very good paint sealant and as long as you apply a thin coat it will dry fast and wipe-off so so easy... By the time you wash, clay, correct, polish and wax any car, you're ready for a wax or paint sealant that dries fast and wipes off easy.
    It's very easy to apply thin -just follow the instructions (What's so tough about RTFM, anyway? Is it really that tough to believe the mfg knows what he's talking about?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    Good points, most people tend to overuse product and this leads to more splatter and product residue on plastic and rubber trim. Another thing a person can do is to just be careful when working around rubber and plastic trim so as not to cream it out with your buffing pad.
    Follow the instructions. Depending on the size of the panel I was doing, I used 2 - 4 pea-sized drop per panel. If you do that and spread before you turn on the DA, you won't get any splatter and the polish will not pack into body seams. As I said, I'll still tape around moulding you can easily bump into - especially around the mirrors, roof rack and sun roof. Probably around the lights too. The rest is unnecessary if you take a little care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    Thank you for the first hand testimoney...

    Did any of your neighbors come over and check out your detailing project?
    Yes. Guy next door came over. He had to leave for a family outing but will stop tonite. He wants to see the finished car. He was complaining about how dull his paint is and his is only 2 years old. I told him we could fix that.

    Anyway, thanks again Mike for all the time and effort you put into the educational articles and videos. The success I had is far more reflective of the info you provided than my ability. And thank Max for me. Yeah, the stuff you do is marketing, but it's the expensive way to market. He didn't have to provide us with this resource.

  6. #6
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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Thanks for posting this thread. I have had all the supplies for some time, but never had the guts to actually do a polish. I plan on taking a few days off to tackle my Audi. Thanks for pushing me over the edge.
    2007 Audi A4 3.2 Brilliant Black

    "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    I've never been a fan of diminishing abrasive technology. Glad you liked them, though.
    '03 Corvette Z06

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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    i really enjoyed your post-well done

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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by 07 z-oh-6 View Post
    I've never been a fan of diminishing abrasive technology. Glad you liked them, though.
    They worked, so I'm a "fan". I used a lot of products when I was a process engineer in industry. Some worked and I became a fan; some did not and I didn't. I do believe Mike P is correct: the WG twins paired with the correct pad will take care of most defects a hobbyist will see. Unless, of course, you've trashed your own car.

    I like the diminishing abrasives. They break down so you can't really screw up. If you need to polish more, do a second pass over that section or switch to a more agressive pad . It may take you some extra time to get the process down, but once you have it you're set until you get a new car. I hit it on the first try. It was a good guess based on the level of swirling I saw on my car versus what I saw on forum posts. Then again, I was a process engineer; over the years I became very good at making this kind of guess.

    Those who do this for a living will see a wider range of paints and conditions. They also need to work a bit faster than the hobbyist. Given that, diminishing abrasives may not be for them.

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    Re: Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro3.2 View Post
    Thanks for posting this thread. I have had all the supplies for some time, but never had the guts to actually do a polish. I plan on taking a few days off to tackle my Audi. Thanks for pushing me over the edge.
    Good. I was a bit apprehensive at first, too. Especially when you read the "failure" posts. However, inherent in those "failure posts" were always one or two points where you could see that the poster failed to follow a correct process. Given that, I felt quite confident that IF I followed Mike P's processes and used fairly "safe" products and the least aggressive approach, I would do no harm.

    My recommend is to first use your DA to lay down a coat of wax merely to get the feel of a DA. That's what I did. You aren't gonna harm your paint laying down a layer of Colli or Pinnacle. But you will get a feel for how a DA rotates, what it likes in terms of how to hold it and how much pressure you can apply on horizontal, vertical and curved panels.

    I will tell you that every panel I did was slightly different in what I could do with the DA. Seems it's also a function of how you stand, sit, left vs right hand, etc. Makes sense - you changed your orientation so you change how you hold and thus contact and pressure. Like I said, lay down some wax first, you'll get the basic feel. If you can't keep a DA rotating properly laying down wax, you're doing something seriously wrong - STOP!!!!!!! Go back read Mike's articles and view the videos again.

    I would recommend first-timers start with the WG line. They are very easy to use. Pick a small panel with the average of what you want to correct. I did the driver side section of my hood. I started with a slower than recommended speed just to get the feel and be safe - a little less than 5.

    Do the section and then completely buff off the polish so you can see what you accomplished. I am not a fan of IPA for various reasons so I simply buffed off and then wiped with a damp rag. Once you are satisfied with the process, move on.

    It took me a bit but once I saw what the polish would do and how it broke down I bumped up the speed. Next time, I would not use less than 5.5 on the PC for either TSR or FG.

    Because I started safe, I didn't get out all of the defects in some panels. That's OK, now that I have the feel I'll get them next time. This was a learning test, I didn't feel the need to be perfect - probably a good attitude the first time you do anything.

    CAVEAT: I do not believe a first-timer will have much success unless they have read Mike's articles, viewed his videos, read the mfg's instruction for use and UNDERSTOOD that material. RTFM - Read The Friggin' Manual (the polite version). If you can't be bothered to put in the time to read and follow the instructions then you are setting yourself up for failure.

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