Wet sanded fully, but still some orange peel

[James35]

Thanks for your response Kevin. Very informative. However, I did hand sand.
So does any know why I still have some remaining orange peel? Is it still from the clear or is it possible its from the paint underneath?

[Kevin Brown]

Originally Posted by James35

Thanks for your response Kevin. Very informative. However, I did hand sand.
So does any know why I still have some remaining orange peel? Is it still from the clear or is it possible its from the paint underneath?

The only way to be completely certain is to use a hard backing, such as a popsicle stick, or a piece of wood (something non-flexible or pliable), wrap a piece of sandpaper around it, and sand a spot. Use a super fine grade, so you won't have to spend a lot of effort re-polishing.

I suspect it's the top coat, as base coats are usually sprayed a lot thinner. Even if there was orange peel below, the reflection would be level if the top coat is level.

As an example, if you took a piece of flat glass and laid it atop of sand or gravel, the reflection off the face of the glass would still be flat. Sure, you could see the topography below the glass, but the reflection isn't coming from there.

[James35]

OK, so the Meguiars Sanding Pad is the problem. So how would you use a hard backing on surfaces that aren't flat? Should I use something really small? I don't mind if that's what it takes to do a show quality finish.

[Kevin Brown]

You would have to find a way to support the paper for those areas, as mentioned previously here:

Originally Posted by Kevin Brown

...
A sanding block or backing plate that is hard can also be flexible.

Materials such as balsa wood, plexiglass, glass, steel, and aluminum are hard. I have personally used, seen other guys use, or heard of other guys using these materials to make sanding pads.

Poke any of these materials with a sharpened pencil and the lead will break with ease, leaving the materials unaffected, or only marginally affected. This assumes there is enough thickness to withstand the assault, and most sanding blocks or backing plates are thick enough.

If the material is thin, it has the potential to flex, bend, or twist.
With the exception of glass, I think most of the listed materials will bend or twist with relative ease. As an example and to give you a visual, a typical metal ruler can bend or twist, yet handle the onslaught of a poke from a pencil lead. In fact, if you wrapped a sheet of sanding paper around a flexible metal ruler, you'd have the makings of a simple yet effective sanding block!

If we decided to use a thin steel ruler as a sanding block, we certainly could. Ideally, we would glue a long foam block onto the back of the ruler, and use the block as a handle or gripping area. For the sake of discussion, let's continue on with this idea.

We could use PSA (peel and stick adhesive) sanding sheets, or cut an appropriate length of sandpaper from a sanding roll and attach it to the ruler. I personally haven't seen too many varieties of paper at the higher grades we are discussing, so we must improvise.

We could use a thin coating of spray glue to attach sandpaper sheets to the ruler, or attach lengths of paper via duct tape, and glue that to the ruler. Of course, the paper should be trimmed to the width of the ruler, and it would be critical that the individual sheets of paper be positioned to tight tolerances in relation to each other- no overhang, no large gaps.

Note: readily available long blocks feature clamping systems that allows us to attach lengths of sandpaper to the block at each end. Other blocks are hook and loop compatible, while still others are smooth faced to easily accept PSA style papers.

Once we found the best way to mount the paper to our ruler, we could use any length ruler as a hard but flexible sanding block. 12", 18", 24", 36", and even 48" rulers are readily available.

By using the longest ruler that would work on our sanding project, we could affect a whole lot of peaks at once, and level them to the same overall height. These areas, when polished, would reflect in tandem. Even if we didn't completely remove all of the orange peel, we would still see a more accurate reflection across the surface....

Some guys simply fold the paper three or four times, and sand using the sandpaper itself as the backing.

I never said it would be easy.... Some leveling can be accomplished through the polishing process. It can be risky, and nowhere near as easy as some guys have recently claimed it to be, especially for a guy that is not super-proficient with a rotary.

If you have to, for very tight convex curves, you can use small diameter discs, and back them with foam, sand by hand or machine, and use a feather ing approach. That is, vet gentle sweeps, perhaps even sand without water so you can see the peel being affected, or sanding ridges.

Post up some shots of the tougher areas you are referring to, please. Then maybe we can get very specific.

[James35]

OK, I'm starting to see the light now. Thanks so much. The Equinox is my wife's primary driver, and it's my learning vehicle It has more curved surfaces than my 300C SRT8 that I'm dying to wet sand. I want to learn everything about it before I do the 300, as I only have 1 shot at it since the factory clear is so thin.

I've been thinking about using multiple layers of CQuartz to build up the clear thickness before I wet sand.

[maluminas]

Originally Posted by James35

I've been thinking about using multiple layers of CQuartz to build up the clear thickness before I wet sand.

Cquartz and other coatings of that type don't add a significant amount of material, it will all be gone after the first few strokes even if you put 5 layers. And also it's expensive and time-consuming to apply this if you will remove it by sanding right after.

The only way to add clear is to add clear, but ill let the painters chime in on that lol

[93fox]

Originally Posted by James35

OK, I'm starting to see the light now. Thanks so much. The Equinox is my wife's primary driver, and it's my learning vehicle It has more curved surfaces than my 300C SRT8 that I'm dying to wet sand. I want to learn everything about it before I do the 300, as I only have 1 shot at it since the factory clear is so thin.

I've been thinking about using multiple layers of CQuartz to build up the clear thickness before I wet sand.

From a painters point of view, this is what i think. If you dont have a paint reader gauge id reccomend you to go to a body shop and ask if they can get some quick readings around your car. Factory clear coat is really thin. Yes you can wetsand it and make it look all shinny and pretty again but how much clear of protection is really left? You want the clear to be at a good healthy thickness so it can offer maximum protection to the paint. So since factory clear is thin, make sure you get some readings of the paint first. Some cars come out of the factory with very low readings and wet sanding it can be very crucial. To remove orange peel you need a good amount of clear to work with. Factory clear is not sufficent enough to sand to then achieve a show car finish. In my personal opinion, dont wetsand factory clear just to remove orange peel. If you want your car to be without orange peel, simply go get quotes on how much it would be to spray 3 coats of clear on your car. Then you have more than enough clear to sand correctly and remove orange peel correctly. also, adding cquartz or any type of coating onto your car and then sanding it is just a waste of time and money. As soon as you do a few strokes, any type of coating that was previously applied will be completely removed. So like i said, the most safe and effective way is getting your car recleard and then sanded troughly to remove orange peel. Im sure you would hate to see burning trough your factory clear or seeing it fail and crack a few years down the road due to how thin you left it from sanding it.

[RaskyR1]

Originally Posted by James35

You know, it's really hard to shoot orange peel. I must have tried a dozen different techniques with my camera. Anyway, here are some pics.
And to answer someone's question, I hand sanded this like Mike's tutorial.

I can still see a noticeable improvement in those pics.


When capturing orange peel in pics I've found you have to use the manual focus and make sure your actually locked in on the surface of the paint....easier to do close up IMO.

[Kevin Brown]

Originally Posted by 93fox

From a painters point of view, this is what i think. If you dont have a paint reader gauge id reccomend you to go to a body shop and ask if they can get some quick readings around your car. Factory clear coat is really thin. Yes you can wetsand it and make it look all shinny and pretty again but how much clear of protection is really left? You want the clear to be at a good healthy thickness so it can offer maximum protection to the paint. So since factory clear is thin, make sure you get some readings of the paint first. Some cars come out of the factory with very low readings and wet sanding it can be very crucial. To remove orange peel you need a good amount of clear to work with. Factory clear is not sufficent enough to sand to then achieve a show car finish. In my personal opinion, dont wetsand factory clear just to remove orange peel. If you want your car to be without orange peel, simply go get quotes on how much it would be to spray 3 coats of clear on your car. Then you have more than enough clear to sand correctly and remove orange peel correctly. also, adding cquartz or any type of coating onto your car and then sanding it is just a waste of time and money. As soon as you do a few strokes, any type of coating that was previously applied will be completely removed. So like i said, the most safe and effective way is getting your car recleared and then sanded thoroughly to remove orange peel. Im sure you would hate to see burning trough your factory clear or seeing it fail and crack a few years down the road due to how thin you left it from sanding it.

100% absolutely perfect advice. Certainly worth considering.

[James35]

What PTG readings would you feel comfortable with wetsanding?

I haven't looked into pricing, but I've heard the pricing of adding coats of clear is in the thousands (close to the same cost of repainting the same color) because they have to rough up the surface with 800 grit, and tape up everything. Whereas a dozen coats of CQuartz (approximately $240) is pretty economical and might give you up to 18 mil worth of clear (and a harder clear at that). Mike's tutorial shows he only removed an average of 0.5 mils after it was all done. What am I missing? Do I have microns and mils mixed up somewhere? Help me with my math. Seems like Opticoat 2.0 or Cquartz could potentially give you the extra safety margin you need for wet sanding.