What am i missing?

[Mike Phillips]

I see what you are saying, but without good technique it doesn't matter what kind of abrasives you are using, the results will be off bc of the poor technique.

Good question and of course technique is important but it's the abrasive technology that comes into contact with the paint that is the starting point for all the magic.

I've helped thousands and probably tens of thousands of people learn to machine polish paint over the last 29 years. Occasionally this includes people that upon using the Porter Cable orbital polisher for the first time used it to try to correct paint on the 1 or 2 speed setting and not pushing down with firm pressure while making their passes. They were taking the careful approach since they were NEW to machine polishing and usually afraid of making a mistake like burning through the paint.

Then they find out they are not removing the swirls. The issue was using too slow of a speed setting and not enough firm downward pressure. These are technique issues.

Ok I have held off enough. My opinion was Technique also in Mike`s poll.

And I think in the poll thread I stated everyone is entitled to their opinion and apparently from the results of the poll more people consider technique to be the number one factor than the other options I listed in the poll.

I am going to quote the Master that I have nothing but extreme respect and appreciation for all the knowledge he shares with all that want to learn and be proud of a task well done.

Page 8 in Complete Guide to A Show Car Shine regarding hard/soft paint.

[indent]
You need experience, Nothing beats first hand experience, Your personal skill level has huge influence with success or failure.[/indent

Actually JRP, if you grab your how-to book and continue reading to the bottom of the left hand column on page 8 you'll see the passage you were probably looking for where I wrote,

Technique is more important than the products and pads you`re using, you can have the best products and best tools available but if your technique isn`t exactly right, you won`t get the results that you`re after.

I know the above to be true after almost two decades of teaching people that are brand new to machine polishing how to detail cars, and more specially how to use a DA polisher. Technique is more important than the products and pads you're using. You can have the best products and the best tools available but if you're technique isn't exactly right, you won't get the results you're after.

And in the context of that chapter, (talking about how to determine soft paint from hard paint), that is correct but only a part of the equation. And I explain more detail in that section about how a person can or cannot know if the paint they are buffing on is hard or soft and the only way they can really know is by having a lot of experience buffing on a wide spectrum of paint. In other words, the way a person becomes GOOD at knowing if the paint they are buffing on is hard or soft is by buffing out a LOT of cars. So a person that only buffs out their own cars, one, two maybe three cars, will not have the experience gained by buffing out LOTS of cars like a professional detailer that buffs out hundreds of cars each year.

And in that context, and here's the key word, ASSUMING the person is using high quality products, then technique is the most important factor for determining whether the paint on a car is hard or soft with all other variables the same.

But out of the above context, if you were not given the option to choose your pads, products or tools, and that's how I envisioned the poll I started, if you could NOT choose your compound or polish, then out of the 5 factors I listed in the poll, which would be the most important when it comes to polishing paint. Not testing for hard or soft paint but simply polishing paint in general and I'll still stick to my opinion that the most important factor is the abrasive technology because all the best technique in the world won't make some compounds and polishes work great. Clearcoats paints and especially clearcoated black and other dark colors show everything.

When I write the 3rd Edition to my first book I'll update that section to fully clarify the context of what I mean by technique is most important for a person that wants to or is trying to determine if the paint they are buffing on is hard or soft and in that context we're assuming they are in fact using quality products plus the right pad and tool for the testing process.


Just to note.... that section, Hard paint or soft paint? in the chapter Car Paint Overview, of my how-to book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine is the only book ever written that addresses the topic of hard paint or soft paint. If you read enough in the online world of car detailing you'll notice it's a popular topic with a lot of confusion surrounding it. Then if you re-read that section and the entire chapter I think you'll find that even a novice to car detailing will understand the history of car paint and this has affected the hardness or softness factor and how that affects all of us today when it comes to working on car paint.

It is in my opinion the most important chapter in the entire book because it gives the reader a foundation to build on as they progress though the book learning how to successfully do every task related to exterior paint washing, decontaminating, correcting, polishing, sealing and maintaining.

Here's the index for the first chapter,






I think it's important for anyone that wants to be good at polishing paint to have a foundational understanding of what I call the 3 P's.

1. Paint
2. Products
3. Procedures

And since paint is the stuff you're working on it's important to know something about it and that's what the first chapter does, it give the person reading the book enough information so that ALL the rest of the chapters make sense and build upon the foundational information presented in chapter 1.
There is so much to learn and Mike you are the man if I am off key please advise. Now just a couple more quotes.

I have read Mike`s book so many times pages are coming loose from the binding.

Thank you for your purchase and your trust. Thank you also for bringing up your point about what I wrote, I never mind discussing anything I've ever written on a forum or said publicly in a class.

And if you send me your shipping address I'll send you a new copy.

[Mike Phillips]

This might be a case of residue control

Could be as cleaning your pad often is also key to great results...


Here's an article with a video on this topic from 2010

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

When you're buffing out a car it's important to clean your pads often. By cleaning your pad often you will work faster and you will enable your pad and product to work more effectively. Be sure to have both clean terry cloth towels on hand and also a nylon pad cleaning brush. It's also a good idea to have plenty of pads so as a pad becomes wet with product you can switch over to a clean dry pad. Dry pads work better than wet pads.



ANYTIME you're abrading the surface whether you're using an aggressive cutting compound of an ultra fine polish, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad...

• Spent product
• Removed paint

You need to remove both of these substances from the face of the pad and the panel you're working on before you apply fresh product. If you don't,

• You increase your chances of leaving micro-marring in the paint.
• Adding fresh product to spent product and removed paint adulterates the fresh product, it also dilutes it.
• Buffing with a dirty pad will be more difficult.
• The product will cake-up on the face of the pad.
• The product will become gummy on the paint and hard to wipe off.

How to clean your pads and other options to make buffing clean again...

• You can scrub the face of the pad with a nylon brush like a pad conditioning brush or even a nylon toothbrush
• If using a Dual Action Polisher or a Rotary Buffer you can clean your pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel
• You can wash your pads in a bucket of water.
• You can wash your pads in a sink under running water.
• You can wash your pads in a pad washer.
• You can switch to a clean, dry pad.
• You can switch to a brand new pad.
• You can used compressed air to blow off residue.

That's the whole idea behind cleaning your pad on the fly... you can remove a majority of the spent product and removed paint and then get back to running the buffer... buffing out an entire car already takes a l-o-n-g time... stopping to do some kind of pad cleaning procedure that isn't quick and easy keeps you from buffing on the paint.




Fast methods include,

• Pad Washers
• Cleaning your pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel
• Using a nylon pad conditioning brush
• Using a Spur if you're using a wool pad on a rotary buffer

Slow methods, (they might work well but they take you away from buffing on the car)

• You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
• You can wash your pads in a sink under running water

How to clean your pad with a nylon brush
Here's how to clean a pad with a nylon brush.

NOTE: you do this with the polisher turned OFF.







How to clean your pad on the fly using a terry cloth hand towel

Cleaning your pad on the fly is where you take a terry cloth towel, usually a medium size hand towel works best, you fold it in two and then simply hold the towel against the face of the pad and then turn the polisher on and use your hand that’s holding the towel to push the towel into the foam. This will act to draw any excess liquid out of the foam and any excess residue off of the face of the pad.


This is me using the Clean your Pad on the Fly Technique to clean my pad on the fly as I'm working around a car buffing it out.

This video explains the above technique in detail and shows you exactly how to use this technique to clean your pads.

How to clean your pad on the fly

takes practice

Takes practice and the help from experienced detailing on a friendly forum never hurts either.

[silverfox]

Mike with you're opinion that abrasives play the key role in polishing paint, can one assume you had a key role in helping develop the new McKee polishing products?

[JeffM]

I dunno, but I would put money that Mike and others could use that nasty turtle wax compound and Simonize and turn heads just the same.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike with you're opinion that abrasives play the key role in polishing paint, can one assume you had a key role in helping develop the new McKee polishing products?

I test products when Nick asks me to test products and "yes" I did some product testing for Nick for McKee's 37.

I have complete confidence in the Mckee's compound, polish and wax. In fact, so much confidence that we used McKee's on the 1963 Corvette built by Brian Finch and on the 1973 Trans Am built by Lonny and Jason Childress and both cars came out perfect.

I'm playing catch-up so far since Detail Fest ended but as soon as I can I'll be sharing some pictures.

Don't have the pictures for the 1973 Trans Am up yet but I do for the 1963 Corvette and it had the worst paint of all.


In the house! Brian Finch's 1963 Split Window Corvette!

[ascarbo27]

i also use the cg products. if other companies had the same noob friendly details along with their products id be using menzurna but i dont understand what half of their products even do. plus if ther was a kit or something that would help me with buying.

[Zubair]

If you are trying to finish this vehicle with the products you already have... I wish you the best of luck.

If the initial compounding step is removing the level of defects you are after than you really just need to focus on your finishing system. Out of your pad and product selection you'll need to find the next step that removes the compounding haze and brings back the gloss. Forget about the "4 step" instructions. You need to perform some test spots and see what the paint likes.

If none of the products work to restore any gloss than I suggest selecting a higher quality abrasive such as M205 (non-diminishing abrasive) or CarPro Reflect (diminishing abrasive) for final polishing. I've used both on several A7s and both have worked equally well in my experience.

True story

[ascarbo27]

would wet sanding be good for these scratches? just for future knowledge

[Mike Phillips]

would wet sanding be good for these scratches? just for future knowledge

No and especially if you've never wet sanded before.

See why here...

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips



If the car is your daily driver then perhaps do the best you can and for any deeper scratches learn to live with them and also troubleshoot their origins. Stop doing anything that could be causing defects, like taking the car to an automatic brush style car wash.

[JRP]

I dunno, but I would put money that Mike and others could use that nasty turtle wax compound and Simonize and turn heads just the same.

Jeff I totally agree with you! I bet you could give Mike a tube of tooth paste mixed with baking soda to correct, tooth paste to polish, and mouth wash for rinsing and paint would shine and turn heads.