Headlight Restoration-new UV sealant idea

[Part-timer]

[quote=ray6;714624]

Originally Posted by Part-timer

I'm not sure but, I think what ray meant to say was NOT to use IPA at all. If alcohol attracts water like a magnet and water is your enemy....it wouldn't make sense to use it in my book.

Water is your enemy on the headlight surface. Alcohol removes the moisture so it won't interfere with your coating application of any solvent based coatings which would include spar/ms (usually causes white streaks).
ray6

It's obvious that you don't care for the spar/ms method by the little digs that you often feel necessary to add into your posts......ie... "(usually causes white streaks)"
I've used the spar method for almost 3 years and have never had white streaks or any other problems.
It does feel to me that you are trying to sway people to use your products in this forum. I find it interesting that some on here have basically accused you of trying to sell your products via this post and you've had the exact same thing happen on the Delta Kits headlight restoration forum. They even went so far as to specifically tell you to NOT do that on their site any more.

[ray6]

[quote=Part-timer;714732]

Originally Posted by ray6

It's obvious that you don't care for the spar/ms method by the little digs that you often feel necessary to add into your posts......ie... "(usually causes white streaks)"
I've used the spar method for almost 3 years and have never had white streaks or any other problems.
It does feel to me that you are trying to sway people to use your products in this forum. I find it interesting that some on here have basically accused you of trying to sell your products via this post and you've had the exact same thing happen on the Delta Kits headlight restoration forum. They even went so far as to specifically tell you to NOT do that on their site any more.

What I said is that moisture on the headlight will cause white streaks with most any solvent based coating. Doesn't matter if it's spar or another brand. This is why it's important to wipe with alcohlol or MS before coating. Alcohol is better because it attracts moisture and dries faster.

I didn't get kicked off Delta Kits forum, I was told not to mention specific product names, mine or others.
ray6

[ray6]

Originally Posted by davidc11291

Ray, do you wipe with straight 91% IPA? I assume that cutting it with water to get a lower IPA concentration (like we typically use on paint) would be counter productive.

The higher the concentration of alcohol, the better it will attract water and the faster the dry.
ray6

[ray6]

Originally Posted by light-bright

For those of you having issues with the spar. I have found this to work for me.

1. I am in AZ so the temps are as much as 110 when I apply. I use a 50/50 or a 60/40 mix I have not noticed a huge difference in the lifespan personally. I have noticed the 50/50 tends to be a little more forgiving when applied.

Here is what I do differently than a lot of others.
I don't mix a tiny amount in a cup and dip the towel. I actually mix 3 small bottles at home, and one bottle will last about 15+ cars. For me that can be days to over a week. The other bottles do not seem to dry out and I simply pour some Alcohol into the bottle once it is nearly or completely empty. This keeps the spar from hardening. Then I rinse it until nearly perfectly clean and refill.
These small bottles, I pick up at Hobby Lobby and they are I think $1 each. They have a small flip top lid and it seems to seal just fine. I will try to put a pic up when I get a chance.
Anyway, I just pop the top and the small hole allows me to squirt a little out onto my blue towel with complete control. I just give enough to get the edge wet (about two light passes from end to end) Then I simply apply in a wiping motion working top to bottom. On occasion I have had one issue, and that is ALWAYS my fault. I have sometimes let my hand dip leaving a missed spot. Unfortunately, when that happens, I have to break out the Alcohol and clean up. The up side is you can just let that dry, and re-apply. You do not have to use OMS to clean again. I like the OMS for initial cleaning simply because it does take a little longer to evaporate letting me get a good look at what my finished product will be.

If I forgot something, or you have questions, let me know.

Great post. Might suggest you add a ball bearing to your bottles and shake before dispensing to make sure there is no spar/ms separation. Don't know if spar/ms separates over time, but some 1K solvent based coatings do.
ray6

[ray6]

[quote=Part-timer;714732]

Originally Posted by ray6

It's obvious that you don't care for the spar/ms method by the little digs that you often feel necessary to add into your posts......ie... "(usually causes white streaks)"
I've used the spar method for almost 3 years and have never had white streaks or any other problems.
It does feel to me that you are trying to sway people to use your products in this forum. I find it interesting that some on here have basically accused you of trying to sell your products via this post and you've had the exact same thing happen on the Delta Kits headlight restoration forum. They even went so far as to specifically tell you to NOT do that on their site any more.

It's true I am not a big fan of the spar/ms method if you're charging money and here's why:

1. Can be tricky to apply in different temperature/humidity conditions.

2. Lucky to average 1 year lifetime.

3. Not available in all areas, and will be banned in others soon due to V.O.C. regulations.

4. Low solids contents.

There are proprietary coatings available specifically designed to block UV, level on vertical surfaces, and stick to polycarbonate and last 2 years. There are many available and the cost difference is probably less than 75 cents per headlight.

For that 75 cents, you're talking about 2 years instead of 1 year, with a choice of water borne or solvent based, with cure times of 5 minutes (water borne) expanding your market potential to include car washes, oil changes, etc.

It seems to me that the added benefits are worth a buck per headlight.

I'm not trying to sell you my company's products, in fact they're not even available yet. What I am trying to do is get restorers to look at all the factors when advancing their business.

It's not our products vs. spar, it's alternative coatings vs. spar.

I honestly can't see the advantages of spar other than cost and availability.
ray6

[davidc11291]

Originally Posted by light-bright

For those of you having issues with the spar. I have found this to work for me.

1. I am in AZ so the temps are as much as 110 when I apply. I use a 50/50 or a 60/40 mix I have not noticed a huge difference in the lifespan personally. I have noticed the 50/50 tends to be a little more forgiving when applied.

Here is what I do differently than a lot of others.
I don't mix a tiny amount in a cup and dip the towel. I actually mix 3 small bottles at home, and one bottle will last about 15+ cars. For me that can be days to over a week. The other bottles do not seem to dry out and I simply pour some Alcohol into the bottle once it is nearly or completely empty. This keeps the spar from hardening. Then I rinse it until nearly perfectly clean and refill.
These small bottles, I pick up at Hobby Lobby and they are I think $1 each. They have a small flip top lid and it seems to seal just fine. I will try to put a pic up when I get a chance.
Anyway, I just pop the top and the small hole allows me to squirt a little out onto my blue towel with complete control. I just give enough to get the edge wet (about two light passes from end to end) Then I simply apply in a wiping motion working top to bottom. On occasion I have had one issue, and that is ALWAYS my fault. I have sometimes let my hand dip leaving a missed spot. Unfortunately, when that happens, I have to break out the Alcohol and clean up. The up side is you can just let that dry, and re-apply. You do not have to use OMS to clean again. I like the OMS for initial cleaning simply because it does take a little longer to evaporate letting me get a good look at what my finished product will be.

If I forgot something, or you have questions, let me know.

Great info.

1. Have you had any problems with the spar/OMS mixture degrading the plastic bottles? I recently used a red Solo brand cup for mixing, and a couple of hours later, when I went to throw the cup in the dumpster, I found that the mixture had eaten through and destroyed the cup.

2. Have you had any problems with premixing the spar and OMS? I'm wondering if the OMS will degrade the spar when premixed. Any idea on how long you can store the mixture before you need to throw it out and make a fresh batch?

[GP49]

Ray is correct about moisture causing white streaking with the spar varnish. I've had it happen when I was in a hurry. But I think something similar would occur with just about any non-aqueous coating. Water doesn't mix with oil or solvent-based products, period!

His advice, "KEEP IT DRY" is valid.

As to durability, I've noted anomalies there that may involve other than the material. On two Ford Tauruses with the same body style (which MIGHT be assumed to have headlights made of similar polycarbonate formulations), both of which are kept outside all the time in the same neighborhood (even the driveways face the same direction), one needs recoating with spar varnish about every few months. The other was at more than two years when I decided to redo it just as a matter of principle. It didn't need it, and looked hardly any different once redone.

[ray6]

Originally Posted by davidc11291

Great info.

1. Have you had any problems with the spar/OMS mixture degrading the plastic bottles? I recently used a red Solo brand cup for mixing, and a couple of hours later, when I went to throw the cup in the dumpster, I found that the mixture had eaten through and destroyed the cup.

2. Have you had any problems with premixing the spar and OMS? I'm wondering if the OMS will degrade the spar when premixed. Any idea on how long you can store the mixture before you need to throw it out and make a fresh batch?

The spar is a polyurethane that cures by solvent evaporation and oxygen adsorption. If you are going to premix, you need to place it in containers that won't allow oxygen to permeate through. Safest would be glass or metal. If using glass, try to get amber bottles in case there any reaction of UV to the mixture. An old medicine bottle might work fine. Some drug stores will sell you empty medicine bottles with caps.

After pouring out your pre-mixed coating, wipe the threads off with a paper towel before recapping so you don't get hardened coating particles when you open it again. Also won't need pliers to open the cap.

To increase shelf life, fill your containers up to the top to reduce trapped oxygen.

Spar/ms may separate over time, so you might add a ball bearing to your container so you can shake it before opening.

I don't think premixing would alter shelf life since you're just adding something that is already there.

Commercial coatings are packaged with argon to increase the shelf life (before opening) by eliminating trapped air. Same with wine.

If your cups are melting, I would worry that some of the cup material might be included on the headlight. You might look for paper cups (like for ketchup/McDonald's) as long as they are not wax coated. Easy way to tell is fill half way with water. Wait 15 minutes. If water soaks through bottom, they're probably O.K. Spar will also soak through but who cares?

Another alternative would to place aluminum foil in your cup before pouring in coating, toss when done. You could keep using the cup. Maybe a shot glass?

Your red cup was probably made of PVC or styrene. Both will probably dissolve with MS.
ray6

[davidc11291]

Originally Posted by ray6

The spar is a polyurethane that cures by solvent evaporation and oxygen adsorption. If you are going to premix, you need to place it in containers that won't allow oxygen to permeate through. Safest would be glass or metal. If using glass, try to get amber bottles in case there any reaction of UV to the mixture. An old medicine bottle might work fine. Some drug stores will sell you empty medicine bottles with caps.

After pouring out your pre-mixed coating, wipe the threads off with a paper towel before recapping so you don't get hardened coating particles when you open it again. Also won't need pliers to open the cap.

To increase shelf life, fill your containers up to the top to reduce trapped oxygen.

Spar/ms may separate over time, so you might add a ball bearing to your container so you can shake it before opening.

I don't think premixing would alter shelf life since you're just adding something that is already there.

Commercial coatings are packaged with argon to increase the shelf life (before opening) by eliminating trapped air. Same with wine.

If your cups are melting, I would worry that some of the cup material might be included on the headlight. You might look for paper cups (like for ketchup/McDonald's) as long as they are not wax coated. Easy way to tell is fill half way with water. Wait 15 minutes. If water soaks through bottom, they're probably O.K. Spar will also soak through but who cares?

Another alternative would to place aluminum foil in your cup before pouring in coating, toss when done. You could keep using the cup. Maybe a shot glass?

Your red cup was probably made of PVC or styrene. Both will probably dissolve with MS.
ray6

Very good info. I agree that glass or metal is best for storing a premix. I previously had a problem where I stored just the spar (not mixed yet) in a small, amber colored vitamin bottle. I washed the bottle thoroughly before storing the spar, but I don't think that I allowed it to fully dry. Water was in my spar, and caused big problems with hazy streaking during application.

Since spar absorbs (and is degraded by) UV, I would think that storing it in a UV blocking container would be very important to ensuring the longest possible protection once its applied to a lens. If it has already absorbed some amount of UV, it just seems logical that it's lifespan has been reduced somewhat. Coming from a medical background, a lot of the IV meds that I would give were often packaged in amber colored vials, specifically to block out light because they were degraded by light.

As far as storing it in a prescription medicine vial, I don't think that's a good idea at all. The screw on caps don't create a seal that can be depended on to be 100% airtight 100% of the time. I've also stored other liquids in them before and they will occasionally leak. 3 things will cause problems with spar- water, air, and UV. Water causes splotchy streaking. Air causes it to dry, and UV causes it to degrade. IMO, a prescription pill bottle won't properly protect spar from these 3 things.

You're point about the cup melting was exactly what I was thinking, too. If the MS is melting the cup, then some of the cup material has to be getting mixed in and applied on the headlight. Even if it's just a little bit, I still don't like it.

[ray6]

I saw on another post a recipe for stripping headlights using mean green and tire cleaner. Has anyone tried it?

Also, Impalas are becoming an item. Has anyone tried just removing the deteriorated part of the coating then recoating the entire headlight? If the original coating is as tough as it seems, the only problem would be if the coating you're using would stick to the original coating and not chemically interfere. Might be a great time saver.
ray6