autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum Autogeek on TV
car wax, car care and auto detailing forumAutogeekonline autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum HomeForumBlogAutogeek.net StoreDetailing Classes with Mike PhillipsGalleryDetailing How To's
 
Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38
  1. #1
    Super Member Dylan@RUPES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like

    Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Bigger is better, except when it isn’t. When it comes to horsepower, bench press numbers, and the size of the fish you just landed a bigger number is better. However, when it comes to cholesterol numbers or the amount of fuel your car burns to get down the road, many of us would agree that less is more.

    The detailing world has been fighting the misconception "that bigger is better" for quite some time. Too thick a coat or too many coats of wax makes it hard to wipe off. Its a mistake that many a rookie has made at one point or another. Too much soap and you'll have a hard time rinsing a vehicle clean. But what about the tools we use? Little thought is given to what is "too much". We regularly vocalize our desire for more power, grunting like Tim Allen describing tools, but is it possible that too much power is a bad thing?

    UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE WATTS MEAN
    It is important for consumers to be educated on what watts really mean to them. I'm not for a second suggesting we all become experts in electrical engineering, but a general level of understanding helps us all be better 'shoppers'. Not everyone is capable of building a car from scratch, but I think we can all agree that having an understanding of what MPG, horsepower, and torque numbers mean in terms of performance make you better equipped to buy the right car.

    Power tools take energy from the grid (input) and tun it into torque (output). Yet, in the US tools are rated by the power they have the potential to consume (watts) and not by the work they actually do. Savvy marketers from around the industry have recognized the bigger is better mentality and combined with a lack of consumer education leverage it to present products as better purely based on statistics of power consumption. So it is key to understand that watts is not a measurement of work done by the tool (output). Watts is a measurement of consumption (input), like how a human body consumes calories or a car consumes fuel. Judging a tool's potential on higher watts alone is no different than deeming a car superior for using more fuel or saying a meal is better because it has more fat.

    Simply put - increased watts does not directly translate to increased performance and certainly not in a linear way. While increased output can (and typically does) result from increased input, there are other factors to consider such as the byproducts of the increased consumption and what happens to the excess power that isn't being delivered to the surface.



    EFFICIENCY MATTERS
    Staying with our analogy of a car with worse MPG, let's also consider that your large increase in fuel consumption only netted a small amount of additional horsepower; the idea seems even crazier now right? Stuffing more fuel into the input side for a small net gain on the output side is a demonstration of how inefficient that particular car is.

    But what happens to all that additional 'input'? Energy will manifest itself in a few ways, it cannot magically disappear or be purely absorbed, so we have to define (for polishing tools) where the excess energy goes:

    • Mechanical Movement - this is the desired result of the input conversion. Orbits, rotations, etc... ultimately we want to take as much of the input and create mechanical movement. Any other input that isn't converted to this output would be considered waste. The challenge is that in an orbital tool you are working with an unbalanced (eccentric) movement that wants to waste some of that energy by design. To create an efficient random orbital polisher that minimizes wasted energy takes some very precise and clever engineering.
    • Heat - the most common way for excess input to manifest itself. Heating of the housing, heating of the internals, heating of the plate, potentially heating of the pad and ultimately the working surface. Heat is considered an undesirable byproduct and experienced detailers, especially those that work in less controlled or mobile environments know all too well how unpredictably compounds can perform when undesired heat is introduced.
    • Vibration - by virtue of its design an orbital tool is not balanced, even more so when discussing large orbit tools. Fortunately, no one runs a polisher for its intended purpose without a pad, but when a pad doesn't offset enough of the excess energy or the energy is more than the counterbalance can effectively offset the result is increased/excess vibration. No one likes the feeling of having their joints rattled loose by a tool vibrating in their hands, and this undesired byproduct has implications in the health of the operator as well as (to a degree) the quality of the finished product.
    • Noise - an often unconsidered factor in this arena, the audible noise the tool produces as it operates is itself a form of energy consumption. Gears lashing together, motor rotation being generated then translated through the gearbox, the translation of that movement to an eccentric movement, it all creates sound, and the the creation of sound is a form of energy consumption. A quiet tool is often times the sign of an efficient tool. While we should all probably be working with hearing protection when polishing the reduction of noise at its source is ideal.

    THE EVOLUTION OF THE LARGE ORBIT MARKET, FROM THE COMPANY THAT CREATED IT
    Thus far the materials published about the upcoming Mark II Bigfoot polishers have included a specific reference: "30% more power". How each person chooses to translate that greatly changes what the message is. As we've been discussing - if it were 30% more input power what we would really be concerned with would be the net result to output, if any?

    Ultimately, what we are concerned with is output to the working surface. We as objective detailers shouldn’t let the red herring of “input” enter into our minds unless we are calculating how much our energy bill is going to increase. If two tools produce similar results, then the tool that is using less energy is more efficient. A properly balanced, highly tuned polisher will deliver better results without all the undesired byproducts of a tool that requires too much energy in an effort to mask an inefficient design.




    With nearly two years of careful development to improve an already revolutionary design, RUPES has managed a extraordinary feat. The BigFoot Mark II polisher will deliver at least 30% more power to the surface without increasing consumption. This means better performance at the working surface with the same 500 watt input rating. It also means there is no increase in heat, no increase in vibration, and not even an increase in your energy bill - if that is an area of concern for you.

    BUT HOW? WITCHCRAFT? VOODOO? ALIEN TECHNOLGOY?
    The Mark II accomplishes this increased output without increased consumption through a redesigned, custom in-house-built motor, improved electronic controls, and careful internal redesigns. It took nearly as long to improve BigFoot as it did to create the original design. The benefit of being an engineering firm and tool manufacturer opens the door to amazing possibilities. Add a little fabled Italian passione and you get Mark II.

    Revisiting our car analogy one last time:

    "The latest model generates 30% more horsepower than the previous model did, and does so without any increased fuel consumption!"

    That sounds like a winning proposition and the car I'd want to buy.


    *this article is a collaborative effort of Todd Helme, Jason Rose, and Dylan von Kleist on behalf of RUPES.

  2. #2
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    651
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Thanks guys for this nice article.

  3. #3
    Super Member fly07sti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area, Cali
    Posts
    2,939
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Thanks for the article Dylan. Now just for clarification, I've read this thread and another thread with a quote from Todd and I just want to know if the increased power at the pad is 30% like you have said or 40% as Todd has said. I currently own a few Rupes machines but do not have a 21 machine in my collection and I'm in the market for one.

  4. #4
    Super Member Dylan@RUPES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    30% is the "official" number... with the 15mm tool though the increase will be more (probably closer to Todd's 40%) and this is simply b/c the LHR15 in the US was always a little detuned from its european counterpart, so the jump forward in MKII is larger, if that makes sense.

  5. #5
    Super Member fly07sti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    SF Bay Area, Cali
    Posts
    2,939
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Works for me. Thanks dude. I'll be on the look out and hopefully making a decision on which 21 to buy within the next couple of weeks.

  6. #6
    In time out
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Johannesburg,South Africa
    Posts
    1,631
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan@RUPES View Post
    30% is the "official" number... with the 15mm tool though the increase will be more (probably closer to Todd's 40%) and this is simply b/c the LHR15 in the US was always a little detuned from its european counterpart, so the jump forward in MKII is larger, if that makes sense.
    This explains why my 15 is so powerful and on speed 5 never ever stalls on the curviest of curves. Always wondered why people complained of stalling but thus far haven't been able to stall mines. I assume the 230V versions, also coupled to the changes made for late 2014 with the flexible power cable and rubber trigger are the more powerful 15's? In many cases my 15 outcuts my Flex with the LC 5" Orange Hybrids, it's starting to make sense now why.

  7. #7
    Super Member dlc95's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Rochester Hills, Mi
    Posts
    6,011
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Excellent article! Great explanation, and analogies.

  8. #8
    Super Member Jaretr1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    2,391
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    I didnt think my Rupes needed more power, but certainly making a great product even greater is never a bad thing.

    I used to sell audio equipment years ago and the analogy was very much the same. People would get all worked up with wattage of an amplifier. High end audio components of the day that we sold (Harmon Kardon, Denon etc) often had much lower wattage ratings than less expensive brands (lets say 50 watts per channel vs 100watts per channel). It was more about the quality of the signal, and design of the amplifier components that affected the sound output than a simple wattage rating. I can assure you, yes, the lower wattage higher priced components sounded better, drove less efficient speakers cleaner, and played at higher volume levels without distortion.

  9. #9
    Super Member Dylan@RUPES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaretr1 View Post
    I didnt think my Rupes needed more power, but certainly making a great product even greater is never a bad thing.

    I used to sell audio equipment years ago and the analogy was very much the same. People would get all worked up with wattage of an amplifier. High end audio components of the day that we sold (Harmon Kardon, Denon etc) often had much lower wattage ratings than less expensive brands (lets say 50 watts per channel vs 100watts per channel). It was more about the quality of the signal, and design of the amplifier components that affected the sound output than a simple wattage rating. I can assure you, yes, the lower wattage higher priced components sounded better, drove less efficient speakers cleaner, and played at higher volume levels without distortion.
    Now we're talking. Years ago, in what seems like a lifetime, I worked designing, selling, and installing high end AV systems. The number of multi-million dollar theaters we'd walk into and see a gross overuse of power for no reason was astounding. We'd replace some of the huge bulky cabinets with more elegant architectural pieces, replace a rack full of amps with a few high efficiency amps and clean power - the owners would be floored in the improvement of sound quality and all without unnecessary equipment or excess power drawn.

  10. #10
    Super Member Joe@NextLevelDetail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Power vs. Consumption - Why bigger isn't always better.

    2 years to have the same motor with 30% more torque ? OK.

    I have over 100 hours + polishing with the Boss, and

    A: does not over heat or get hot what's so ever.

    B: the vibration is virtually none its like driving a Cadillac down a freshly paved road, and there is none, it is actually way more comfortable to do a car for multiple hours then a rupes, and everyone that has reviewed both has said the same, would you prefer to hold square plastic, or rubber grips thru out the machine ?

    C: the pads that go with this machine don't run that hot, and are extremely durable and smooth

    D: the Boss is I would say a little louder then a Rupes, I think someone measured the sound and the Boss was louder, however couldn't really tell the difference without measuring (rupes has a higher winding sound) (boss has a high rumble sound )

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. BOGO Sale Just got BIGGER and BETTER!
    By Nick McKees37 in forum Sales & Promotions - For forum members and non-forum members
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-15-2016, 09:47 AM
  2. Quoting for a bigger job
    By shop1detail in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-27-2014, 03:53 PM
  3. Something a little bigger
    By AeroCleanse in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-11-2011, 11:36 PM
  4. Family just got bigger!
    By DaC in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-05-2011, 07:11 AM
  5. Always Bigger in Texas....
    By Tex Star Detail in forum Show N' Shine
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-07-2007, 10:09 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» March 2024

S M T W T F S
2526272829 1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31 123456