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Old 04-26-2012, 09:33 AM   #21
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

OK, thanks. I am using different products so I guess I dont know what to call them but in following the directions I have the right order.

I think I decided to start with a white pad and the AIO product as the lease aggressive method first. I will find an area that has light scratches and really no where on the car there are deep ones so this might work. The areas I hit by hand I used the swirl remover which I think helped save some arm work but with the machine I am crossing my fingers the AIO product used as a polish will get the clear coat scratches I see.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #22
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post
I just got my PC in today along with the PC How To video by Mike. I noticed that he didnt run the PC up to the edge of the hood during his example. Does that mean anything or is just an example and that is all? I am just wondering if I am not suppose to get the pad near body edges.

Also in the video Mike was saying to start with the least abrasive method first. Even though my truck is brand new I have clear coat scratches from the dealer broom. I know that is what they are because they are all in a straight line and not swirls. I used my swirl removing product by hand on a cotton pad and with a lot of work was able to remove small tight areas by hand. I doubt that my AIO product with mild abrasives would do the job but do you guys think I should give that a try or just correct the car now and then go to the AIO as a polish then finish off with the wax product?

Just for a run down this is what I came up with:

Swirl remover= Orange pad
AIO= white pad
Wax= black pad
Sealer= blue pad
Brian,

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see a listing of products you bought or the pads that you are using. Different products and pads have different characteristics. I've used LC CCS, flat, and constant pressure pads. For these pads, I start with white pads for any polish (mostly Menzerna SIP and FPII), and move to an orange or yellow pad if necessary.

For example, an Orange LC Hybrid pad is labeled a "heavy cutting pad" while an Orange LC CCS pad is labeled a "light cutting pad". You need to specify brand and type of pad to get accurate feedback.

Also, you listed pads for applying wax and sealant. Zaino and Ultima specify using a microfiber pad for hand-applying their sealants. (I've applied Zaino Z2 & Z5 by hand and machine. Applying by machine is a waste of time.) OTOH, other brands/types of sealants and waxes can/should be applied with by machine. Get my drift? It depends on the products you choose.

Also, it looks like you're going with a multi-step process with sealant and/or wax as an LSP. Why get an AIO?

Since you want a multi-step process, I'd recommend using a good quality polish like Menzerna for prep followed by a good sealant. Skip the AIO. I'm not a wax fan because of the need to reapply every month or so, but you can add wax on top of the sealant if you feel the need for extra pop.

Also, make sure that you get the right kind of car washes, cleaners, and QD's for your LSP. Some will strip the LSP and some won't. This can be either good or bad depending on your goal. Dawn soap will strip most waxes and LSPs, which is good if you're prepping for applying new LSP's. Or bad, if you're just doing a routine, recurring wash.

The same thing applies to microfiber towels - it depends. I use PakShak and Cobra Guzzler waffle-weaves for drying my car. (PakShak is easily as good as the Guzzler and 2/3 the cost.) For removing polishes, I like short nap towels. For QD's, I prefer a plush towel (I have several from PakShak and PBMG.)

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Dan.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #23
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

I am using LC flat pads. Yes I am using zaino products and am starting with the AIO because I it's light cleaning ability to hopefully remove the light CC scratches. In the areas I did by hand I used the swirl remover an it still required several attempts to clean them out. I am hoping a white polish pad with the AIO will be enough to remove light CC scratches.

I will just have to do a test spot and see. If the AIO won't do it I will go with the orange LC flat pad and the swirl remover and find how many section passes I need.

The gloss products I may not need a machine but I am sure it will go on more uniform and easier then moving my shoulder that much to cover a tundra. I bought the gray pads to use with z5 and blue to use with z2 as a LSP

For car wash I bought the foam gun so I can use the same brand car wash an be sure it won't strip anything off. A pressure washer was not suggested because too much pressure could strip the product an to get more foam I would be using a different brand soap.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:40 PM   #24
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post
I just got my PC in today along with the PC How To video by Mike.

I noticed that he didnt run the PC up to the edge of the hood during his example.

Does that mean anything or is just an example and that is all? I am just wondering if I am not suppose to get the pad near body edges.
It's a good best practice to not buff on edges.

If working on a new car with all the paint from the factory it's really not a concern because PC style tools are very safe, but still, it's a good best practice to not buff on edges.

Also, when making these types of videos they are really focused on showing the technique for using the tool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post
Also in the video Mike was saying to start with the least abrasive method first.
That's another good "Best Practice"

I cover that in what I did last Saturday with Kevin... read through this entire thread...

Pictures from Autogeek's Saturday Detail Clinic - April 21st


For the Test Spot we're going to take the least aggressive approach and try Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish with a Tangerine Hydro-Tech Polishing pad on a Porter Cable 7424XP




Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post

I doubt that my AIO product with mild abrasives would do the job but do you guys think I should give that a try
Yes. Try the Zaino AIO with a polishing pad, this is a medium cut polish and by machine with a polishing pad should remove a majority of the defects.



Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post
So being new to machines used on my cars I want to hear the things I should never do and mistakes others made so I can learn from them.
Well you're in the right place.



Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post
What I want to know is if its possible to burn the paint off anywhere on my truck/car using the PC incorrectly? The products I am using are safe and the strongest color pad I will use is orange so no issues there.
Here's what I always tell people,

If the paint is so thin you could burn through it working by hand then you can burn through it using ANY electric buffer.

Use common sense and you'll be okay. Remember millions of people have gone before you and transitioned from working by hand to working by machine with the same fears as you and while once in a while you read about a problem, the problems are truly the exception... not the rule.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post

Things that concern me are edges of body lines and painted plastic bumpers etc. Is there any risk using the PC near these areas? In my mind I figure a convex surface body line will have a high point that the pad will ride on and it being so thin makes me think all the force would take the paint off.
See my answer above about burning through paint...


Quote:
Originally Posted by brian45acp View Post

All the vids show Mike using the PC on flat hoods and door panels. What about all the door jam areas and high points in the body lines?

Please teach me something I dont know.
See my answer above about showing "technique" in videos and then watch this video...

How to buff out concave and convex curved panels by machine




Quote:
Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post

Well, google maps tells me you're not that far from Irvine, why don't you take a ride down to a Meguiar's Thursday Night Open Garage or one of the Saturday detailing classes that Mike used to teach, you can get some hands-on and watch other people use the machines.
I would recommend this also... Mike Stoops took my place when I left Meguiar's and continues to hold the Thursday Night Clinics I started years ago. Originally they were on Wednesday nights and then I moved them to Thursday nights.

Plus there a a LOT of regulars that I've worked with at the TNOG's that are not only very nice people and car nuts but also very proficient with machine polishing and also very good at teaching others how to machine polish.

If you go.. please tell them I say "hi"


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Old 04-26-2012, 01:04 PM   #25
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Hey brian are you on tundratalk.net?

I can tell you after doing a full paint correction on my tundra that my biggest mistake was not opticoating it after. The clear is so thin on our tundras it will swirl and mar VERY easily. Even taking every precaution when washing after. I will be using opticoat 2.0 after my next full correction to give me more clear to work with. It sounds like you are setup and ready to go with good direction. Make sure you have a good halogen light to inspect the paint while working, you may think you've removed all the defects but cant see them unless under some intense light.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:18 PM   #26
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

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Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
Yes. Try the Zaino AIO with a polishing pad, this is a medium cut polish and by machine with a polishing pad should remove a majority of the defects.
Yow...I've never been able to get the Z-AIO to remove anything (at least on hard clears) and would put it in the same cutting class as KAIO...which is to say, really nothing. On top of that, I find Z-AIO to not work well by machine (I think Sal has it somewhere on his site he intended it for hand application).

It does sound like the OP also has the Z-PC, which does have some cut to it and is a fairly nice, non-oily machine polish.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:33 PM   #27
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post

It does sound like the OP also has the Z-PC, which does have some cut to it and is a fairly nice, non-oily machine polish.

Whoops... my mistake...

I confused Zaino AIO with Zaino Z-PC


You're right Mike, the AIO is very light in it's cleaning ability and I comparison tested Z-PC with M83 when the Z-PC first came out and found them to have about the same correction ability when used with polishing pads on the PC.


Good catch my man...


Brian, be sure to read the above... didn't mean to steer you the wrong way...

Typing too fast, thinking too slow...


Seriously, get some Menzerna polishes, like the SI 1500 – Super Intensive Polish (PO83) and the SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)


Work on anything, no problems...


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Old 04-26-2012, 09:18 PM   #28
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

thanks guys.

Mike I watched all those vids you posted before hand and thats how I came up with questions. All the vids help me so much.

The Zaino AIO is light correction but I just tried some by hand and it removed mostly everything so I will try that first by machine then go to the ZPC and orange pad if no results.

What is opticoat? I am reading about it now but it seems too good to be true.

Last edited by brian45acp; 04-26-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:23 PM   #29
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Its a permanent coating you can apply after you have removed all paint defects. Its essentially another layer of clearcoat, which is already super thin on our trucks.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:41 PM   #30
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Re: Teach me what not to do and mistakes to avoid

In terms of staying clear of edges is that just when correcting? I would imagine applying the products that protect you want to be getting all the paint. Either way I am sure I will still do edges by hand because it keeps things cleaner and more precise to not get product on the trim areas.

I havent noticed Zaino staining any plastic or leaving any white stuff on trim but I will still be careful.

Had I not already had so much money invested in Zaino I would have gone with AG products to make this easier but for now I have to learn with what I have and use the product I already bought.
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