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  #31  
Old 09-25-2007, 05:52 PM
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Well said Gary!
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2007, 05:54 PM
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Thanks Gary. I just wanted to take a minute and say that I in no way blame the workers for the bad financial position GM finds itself in. I agree with you that most of the blame lands on top managment (and probaby not so much the current group but the management of 10 or 20 years ago). The question CAN'T be about whose to blame though, it has to be HOW to fix it - for everyone's sake.
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  #33  
Old 09-25-2007, 07:32 PM
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The thing I hate about CEO's, majority of the companies doing poorly have the highest paid CEO's and largest severance packages, and I'm talking poorly as in performance over the years to shareholders, employee's, stupid business decisions etc. Then the companies that are in good standings, business increasing, happy shareholders and employees etc, have the lowest paid CEO's and packages on average. I have a good article in a Forbes mag on this.
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  #34  
Old 09-25-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Sword View Post
I do believe in taking care of people who work for you. In order to take care of the people you have to be able to make money. As a corporation the shareholders also need to make a fair return on their investment. With all the huge losses GM has had in recent years I don't feel they're in a postion to do anything for the union workers. If they had a number of consecutive years with big profits I would feel differently. The US auto companies are in a fight for their survival. I mostly blame the top management for their problems but it does not change the fact.

you hit the nail on the head but it should be a little more pronounced. GM was the biggest employer in the US and DID provide more than offer ample benefits to its workers. By the same token they are NOT currently in a position to do so, and unfortunately the UAW workers arent willing to turn the other cheek. They expect high wages, big benefits, guaranteed retirements, and healthcare. When the bulk of wage earners in America DONT get the same benefits anymore, even the highly educated professional.

The UAW gets to force GM and others to keep lazy, unreliable and unrealistic workers on staff at the cost of being able to hire and keep/promote/benefit the best of best specifically. Michigans economy is directly related to this and exactly why there is no real employment in the state.

I wont even get in the trade imbalance, dumping, and other manuevers the foreign car companies now receive in the US which only adds to a bleak outlook for the domestic manufacturer. GM needs to do whatever possible to revamp the company. As a stockholder, GM car owner, and having family in the industry I still believe GM must hold its head up and lower the UAW expectation to reasonable conditions.

Last edited by killrwheels@autogeek : 09-25-2007 at 07:43 PM.
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  #35  
Old 09-25-2007, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wytstang View Post
That's smart we want job security so lets strike. Unions had there time/place, they are not needed today imo.
Correct sir!

We can all defend ourselves in 2007. Labor unions were created to protect against inhumane working conditions in the early days of America. Total mafia like entities in 07.

I graduated Cornell / employment labor relations. The leading school in the country regarding labor relations.
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  #36  
Old 09-25-2007, 08:51 PM
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Maybe someone can explain Union Dues to me?

You are sold as labor to a "choked: company.
You are paid hourly and at about a third of the rate you are billed at.
You pay a POST tax "VIG" to a union hall.

To do what for you?
Fire you when things get too costly?
Make you strike to get some fictional benefit?
Offer no job for you to jump to if necessary?

B-fund, you already earned it.....
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  #37  
Old 09-25-2007, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jsatek View Post
Correct sir!

We can all defend ourselves in 2007. Labor unions were created to protect against inhumane working conditions in the early days of America. Total mafia like entities in 07.

I graduated Cornell / employment labor relations. The leading school in the country regarding labor relations.
Great!!!!! you have some book smarts now go out and get some experience..

Unions don't fire people..Companies fire people.

Quote:
Make you strike to get some fictional benefit?
Unions don't make you strike..I'm sure all the the members took a vote to decide if they should strike...
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  #38  
Old 09-25-2007, 09:03 PM
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Hey Joe P

Companies fire people because union "representatives" choke companies with unfair labor charges that they NEVER give to the union members...

Book smarts don't buy what I have pal, don't fool yourself....lets not get into a cash discussion... lets keep it business.
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  #39  
Old 09-25-2007, 09:12 PM
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Companies fire people because union "representatives" choke companies with unfair labor charges that they NEVER give to the union members...
Maybe.. .do you think the Unions are the onlys with there hands in the pockets of big companies..

i like going to work with out the worry when a company crys broke that cant pull out a pencil along with a list names and start cutting jobs..plenty of fat to cut at the top first..

Maybe GM is broke due the fact that the people who are born and raised here in america chose to purchase foreign cars rather then buy American..people chose to work in America but send there monies back to other countrys...don't blame unions for the economy
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  #40  
Old 09-25-2007, 09:16 PM
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I'm sure you know me from "other forums". Actually, I know you've seen a picture of me.

I'm not kid, I'm 36. 15 YEARS out of college.
I'm not dope, clearly.
And I'm not living in a hole.
To add insult ot injury, 10021 zip code isn't cheap. Actually, I think my annual parking for 1 of my cars is the GNP of a few small countries.

I'm not looking to make personal jabs, Im looking to debate the union mentality during this exciting GM strike time in a false bull market. With S&P over 1510, Canadian dollar on par with the USD, the Euro at 1.41 and climbing. Its a good discussion to have.
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