Just what the economy needed

[wytstang]

Originally Posted by Gary Sword

Some good comments Motor City. As someone from the Detroit Area who grew up in a blue collar family I feel for the Union people but the Union needs to be realistic. GM as well as the other auto makers have lost so much money the last few years it's unbelievable. The benefits and wages paid to the UAW far exceed the wage and benefit packages paid by other automakers anywhere in the world. If the UAW is not more realistic in the end I think it will just mean less jobs in and US as they move more plants out of the county.

Exactly

[Gary Sword]

Originally Posted by joe.p

Gary..i agree people need a fair return on their investment..maybe CEOs of bigger companies should look at taking a pay cut...maybe cut back on Coperate spending..here in Illinois major Companies don't even pay their fair share in taxes due to the loop holes in the law..

Gary,the last time the UAW went on strike according to the news was back in 1976 31 years ago..when companies and government negotiate new contracts they want to take something back the object here is to keep what you have and ask for decent living wage and better benefits..for themselfs and family..

I hope i'm not coming of like A ss ..its surely not my intention

You know your my bud joe and I certainly don't think your an A ss. I know where you coming from and I feel for the workers too. I feel the big CEOs in the US make way to much money and need to take some big cuts and do a better job especially in the auto industry. The fact is we are in a globel economy and we need to compete with other countries. I hate to see jobs keep going overseas and to Mexico.

[Ticman]

Originally Posted by Gary Sword

You know your my bud joe and I certainly don't think your an A ss. I know where you coming from and I feel for the workers too. I feel the big CEOs in the US make way to much money and need to take some big cuts and do a better job especially in the auto industry. The fact is we are in a globel economy and we need to compete with other countries. I hate to see jobs keep going overseas and to Mexico.

Totally agree with you Gary. CEO's and the high ups keep getting their bonuses and huge salaries even though the worker get laid off. It's time these over paid CEO's and such take a pay cut. All it means to them it they don't get the 300 foot yacht and get a 250 footer.

Tic

[Dre-srt-4]

What would happen if they were to pull the union out and just hire people outright without union?

Aren't thier laws in place for wages and condition of work?

[The Pad Man]

Originally Posted by supercharged

what does GM paying an average worker an hour anyway?

Roughly about 72 dollars per hour total package.

[makdaddy626]

I'm all for unions when used appropriately, that is to say, to protect the workforce from being taken advantage of but not as tool for forcing a company to lose money or close... if the company is being forced to pay more for labor than other companies in the same industry how is that "fair"

As for CEO salaries, yes they're enormous but the jobs are extremely high pressure and require a lot work that most people never think about, not to mention the years of paying dues (in education and other areas to obtain the position). Also consider this...

GM employees over 250,000 workers, let's say the CEO was willing to drop his salary by 10 million a year (by the way, he only makes 8.5), that would equate to $40.00 a year (or about .02 an hour) more for each worker if distrubuted evenly. Not exactly the kind of raise that the union is wanting now is it?

Conversely if GM gave each of 250,000 workers a $1 an hour raise that would be...
250,000 (workers) X 2000 (hours per year - approximated) = 500,000,000.00 (that's half a billion dollars!!! Where is that money suppose to come from when the company is already losing money?


Most of these numbers are from 2005, but should still be pretty close and hopefully illustrate my point.

I feel the fundamental question you have to ask yourself first is...
What determines a "fair" wage? Is it based on the amount of profit a business makes or is it based on how much the job is worth in itself? Perhaps this is an overly simplified starting point as they are definately tied together in some respects.

[MotorCity Honda]

Here's a letter I just received from one of my customers.... I blacked out the Customer name

We also ship hundreds of millions of $'s a year worth of product Directly to GM... This is going to hit everyone, UAW or not.

[LazerRed1]

The reason the US car makers are hurting is that they lost touch with the market. For years they built cars that were unreliable and ugly. They have gotten past the reliable part but they still can't seem to get in touch with what the market wants and they are having to play catch up with foreign car makers.

The auto worker union is really the last one we have truly looking out for the workers and we need that. This country is quickly turning into a society of the wealthy and the working poor. No more middle class. Jobs are allowed to go overseas in the name of corporate profit. NAFTA is the biggest con job sold on the public. Look at the number of people that don't have and can't afford health insurance or medical care. Disgraceful for what is supposed to be the best country in the world. One of the big reasons for past societies failing and revolts is when the common everyday person can't afford even the essentials of life, and we are quickly getting there.

It's not the auto workers fault the big 3 are in the position they are in so quit blaming them.

[makdaddy626]

LazerRed1, I agree that the US auto makers seem to be out of touch with the market, however, I think this is itself an overly simplistic view of the situation. Making up-to-date vehicles, in terms of performance, reliability, styling, and price requires $$$. Additionally, consider the cost of re-tooling a factory for a new model. Newer factories are much better designed and the equipment inside them is newer and more flexible. It's very difficult for an older company such as Ford or GM to compete with the new companies without building new facilities. Now, when it's time to build a new facility, where are would you choose to put it? Detroit where you can expect to pay your workers $40.00 / hour? Or in an different company where you can reduce that amount by a large margin?

[makdaddy626]

Originally Posted by LazerRed1

It's not the auto workers fault the big 3 are in the position they are in so quit blaming them.

Who's "blaming" the autoworkers? In my opinion, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, the reality is, the big 3 are not turning big profits and in some cases losing money, and if that's the case why would they choose to loose more money in order to pay the workers more? It makes more sense to close - something that won't be good for anyone, least of all the workers.