Engine Maintenance

[Reddwarf]

A friend of my wife's just had her battery die on her. She took it to a place that put in a new battery, cleaned the cables, etc.

Then they tried to sell her on work to replace all the fluids in the car: oil, radiator, transmission, power steering, brake fluid, fuel filter, tune up, spark plugs and tire rotation. All for $800 bucks!

It’s a Mazda 6 with 60k mikes. My question, is regarding the need to change all those fluids, etc. For example, the guy was saying you should change your brake fluid every 20k. Is it good/ necessary to do this type of fluid maintenance?

[FloridaNative]

Originally Posted by Reddwarf

A friend of my wife's just had her battery die on her. She took it to a place that put in a new battery, cleaned the cables, etc.

Then they tried to sell her on work to replace all the fluids in the car: oil, radiator, transmission, power steering, brake fluid, fuel filter, tune up, spark plugs and tire rotation. All for $800 bucks!

It’s a Mazda 6 with 60k mikes. My question, is regarding the need to change all those fluids, etc. For example, the guy was saying you should change your brake fluid every 20k. Is it good/ necessary to do this type of fluid maintenance?

The vehicle's owner's manual goes into all of that. If you look it up in the index for maintenance it tells you exactly how often you need to do it and even what types of fluids to use. i.e. what type of motor oil to buy.

[BILL]

Originally Posted by FloridaNative

The vehicle's owner's manual goes into all of that. If you look it up in the index for maintenance it tells you exactly how often you need to do it and even what types of fluids to use. i.e. what type of motor oil to buy.

The owners manual is the bible of the car....always refer to that first....... ...

[wytstang]

Yes, people often forget that fluids break down over time (just like motor oil). Parts store sell radiator test strip that test the strength of the rad. fluid and tell you if it needs to be replaced. Fluids contain additives to "moisten" seals, but once they deteriorate they are no longer being treated and start to dry out. To save $$ in the long run (conserning motor oil) I sent out an oil sample to be tested, oils today can go longer then before so the 3 months 3,000 miles is out the window.

[cummins03]

I do oil analysis every 7000 miles on my truck. I use Amsoil, I went 21000 miles on this oil change. Change the filter every 7000 miles after I take a sample. I also think the first 5000 miles are very important when everything is breaking in.

[texasdan]

Reddwarf,

Everyone wants your money...

Follow what the manufacturer says in the owners manual. This sounds like a political answer. I've yet to see a premature failure due to lack of maintenance when the maintenance is performed according to this schedule. They are not always perfect, but they generally know what they are doing and have more testing experience than anyone else. Also, they face litigation regarding these issues, so they are careful and tend to overcompensate slightly. All the lube places want your repeat business more often so they push for quick intervals.

It all comes down to how long you want to keep your vehicle and what type of driving you do. If you drive in severe conditions, then follow what the owners manual says for severe conditions. If you drive in normal conditions where you don't have temperature and environmental extremes and most of your trips are more than 10 minutes, follow the intervals for normal conditions. If you want increase your chance to get to 300,000 miles which is 2 x the design life of the car, then half the maintenance intervals. This is not perfect, but essentially you change the fluids before they begin to degrade at all. With most maintenance schedules, a lot of assumptions are made about your driving habits. I do the 300,000 mile thing with my car, but my wife trades every 2 years, so I just follow the owners manual with hers.

I'm new to the AG crowd, but for what it is worth, I am a automotive quality engineer who is obsessed with this stuff. I also race motocross which allows me to test while having fun. You will find out what products are worth their salt and the ones that are not.

For brake fluid specifically, the time should matter over miles. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture over time. If you are in a humid environment then it will probably need changed more often for good measure. My personal preference is to change it at the first hint of performance loss like a spongy feeling or bad stopping distance even with good pads on.

Its all about money; for you and the lube place. Automobile maintenance intervals from the manufacturer are generally set a bit conservative and then the lube places cut that down by more.

For the record, heavy equipment (Caterpillar, etc), which costs millions has set intervals for certain things, but the companies who really understand cost / benefit are performing their maintenance based based on fluid and part condition. Since the cost of such testing devices is not feasible for the car owner, and you really don't want to disassemble your car to measure wear, this type of condition-based maintenance is not recommended for cars. Some cars now have an engine oil life monitor which computes the actual driving conditions and correlates that to oil breakdown.

Remember that the average car owner turns the key and drives and does not consider maintenance until the car breaks down or a light comes on to remind them that the oil life is 0%.

[Reddwarf]

The Mazda 60K maintenance schedule does not call for replaing all the fulids, except oil I think.

I've just never heard of routine replacement of brake fluid, etc. Seems reasonable but expensive!

Regarding oil: my Jag uses synthetic oil and they recommend change every 10K! Seems like a long time between oil change to me.

[BILL]

Originally Posted by danjosborn

Reddwarf,

Everyone wants your money...

Follow what the manufacturer says in the owners manual. This sounds like a political answer. I've yet to see a premature failure due to lack of maintenance when the maintenance is performed according to this schedule. They are not always perfect, but they generally know what they are doing and have more testing experience than anyone else. Also, they face litigation regarding these issues, so they are careful and tend to overcompensate slightly. All the lube places want your repeat business more often so they push for quick intervals.

It all comes down to how long you want to keep your vehicle and what type of driving you do. If you drive in severe conditions, then follow what the owners manual says for severe conditions. If you drive in normal conditions where you don't have temperature and environmental extremes and most of your trips are more than 10 minutes, follow the intervals for normal conditions. If you want increase your chance to get to 300,000 miles which is 2 x the design life of the car, then half the maintenance intervals. This is not perfect, but essentially you change the fluids before they begin to degrade at all. With most maintenance schedules, a lot of assumptions are made about your driving habits. I do the 300,000 mile thing with my car, but my wife trades every 2 years, so I just follow the owners manual with hers.

I'm new to the AG crowd, but for what it is worth, I am a automotive quality engineer who is obsessed with this stuff. I also race motocross which allows me to test while having fun. You will find out what products are worth their salt and the ones that are not.

For brake fluid specifically, the time should matter over miles. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture over time. If you are in a humid environment then it will probably need changed more often for good measure. My personal preference is to change it at the first hint of performance loss like a spongy feeling or bad stopping distance even with good pads on.

Its all about money; for you and the lube place. Automobile maintenance intervals from the manufacturer are generally set a bit conservative and then the lube places cut that down by more.

For the record, heavy equipment (Caterpillar, etc), which costs millions has set intervals for certain things, but the companies who really understand cost / benefit are performing their maintenance based based on fluid and part condition. Since the cost of such testing devices is not feasible for the car owner, and you really don't want to disassemble your car to measure wear, this type of condition-based maintenance is not recommended for cars. Some cars now have an engine oil life monitor which computes the actual driving conditions and correlates that to oil breakdown.

Remember that the average car owner turns the key and drives and does not consider maintenance until the car breaks down or a light comes on to remind them that the oil life is 0%.

Thank you and welcome..........very informative.......

[texasdan]

Originally Posted by cummins03

I do oil analysis every 7000 miles on my truck. I use Amsoil, I went 21000 miles on this oil change. Change the filter every 7000 miles after I take a sample. I also think the first 5000 miles are very important when everything is breaking in.

Cummins03, how much does this analysis cost? I'm a big fan of synthetics (real synthetics like Amsoil), but am currently using Mobil 1 in everything.

Is this a diesel you are talking about?

[Reddwarf]

Originally Posted by danjosborn

Reddwarf,

Everyone wants your money...

Follow what the manufacturer says in the owners manual. This sounds like a political answer. I've yet to see a premature failure due to lack of maintenance when the maintenance is performed according to this schedule. They are not always perfect, but they generally know what they are doing and have more testing experience than anyone else. Also, they face litigation regarding these issues, so they are careful and tend to overcompensate slightly. All the lube places want your repeat business more often so they push for quick intervals.

It all comes down to how long you want to keep your vehicle and what type of driving you do. If you drive in severe conditions, then follow what the owners manual says for severe conditions. If you drive in normal conditions where you don't have temperature and environmental extremes and most of your trips are more than 10 minutes, follow the intervals for normal conditions. If you want increase your chance to get to 300,000 miles which is 2 x the design life of the car, then half the maintenance intervals. This is not perfect, but essentially you change the fluids before they begin to degrade at all. With most maintenance schedules, a lot of assumptions are made about your driving habits. I do the 300,000 mile thing with my car, but my wife trades every 2 years, so I just follow the owners manual with hers.

I'm new to the AG crowd, but for what it is worth, I am a automotive quality engineer who is obsessed with this stuff. I also race motocross which allows me to test while having fun. You will find out what products are worth their salt and the ones that are not.

For brake fluid specifically, the time should matter over miles. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture over time. If you are in a humid environment then it will probably need changed more often for good measure. My personal preference is to change it at the first hint of performance loss like a spongy feeling or bad stopping distance even with good pads on.

Its all about money; for you and the lube place. Automobile maintenance intervals from the manufacturer are generally set a bit conservative and then the lube places cut that down by more.

For the record, heavy equipment (Caterpillar, etc), which costs millions has set intervals for certain things, but the companies who really understand cost / benefit are performing their maintenance based based on fluid and part condition. Since the cost of such testing devices is not feasible for the car owner, and you really don't want to disassemble your car to measure wear, this type of condition-based maintenance is not recommended for cars. Some cars now have an engine oil life monitor which computes the actual driving conditions and correlates that to oil breakdown.

Remember that the average car owner turns the key and drives and does not consider maintenance until the car breaks down or a light comes on to remind them that the oil life is 0%.

Thanks! This sounds like great advice