ready to rotary or not?

[BenSRT]

Hi guys,

I'm not a professional but learned a lot on this forum. Since a month I sold my PC to buy a Flex 3401 VRG and It work very nice. So this week I teach to a friend with his new PC to make a 2 steps polishing process on his car. I don't have pictures but to make short story He pay to make a polishing job in a esthetic shop and the shop has make DISO on the car.

The car has plenty of holograms and trails marks on the car. We make together a claybar and 2 steps polishings on the car. My friend with is PC and orange pad and M105 and me with my flex 3401 with white pad anf M205.

has the spot light the swirls and holograms is eliminate. but at the sun light we see a little hologram again. I know my friend is beginner but I tought is would be better.

So, did you think I can make better with a rotary buffer than Flex 3403 ? Can I make a great job with the same various agressivity foam pad than a DA cause I'm scary to use a wool pad.

thanks guys

Ben

[rider9195]

I would use the 3401 for the compounding and PC for polishing. The only way to get better results with a rotary are proper and safe technique. Plus you will need some practice on it.

[BenSRT]

did you think is possible to remove all kinds of swirls and holograms with a DA or at a certain state we need a rotary?

[BobbyG]

Originally Posted by BenSRT

did you think is possible to remove all kinds of swirls and holograms with a DA or at a certain state we need a rotary?

Ben,

Depending of how severe the swirls and surface defects should determine your course of action.

A rotary is a great tool but takes a little more time and practice in order to use it and be comfortable. A rotary because if it's action greatly shortens the correction time.

I would definitely use the Flex 3401 for the bulk of the correction. It's forced rotation enables it to be more consistent producing a uniform appearance. As long as the defects don't breach the clear coat the Flex 3401 will do the job. You might find yourself switching to a Yellow foam pad and drop down 1 pad size but remember to use a corresponding size backup plate.

It's likely that your friend needed to spend a little more time on each section to insure defect removal. With a bit more practice I'm sure he'll get the hang of it...

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

Originally Posted by BenSRT

The car has plenty of holograms and trails marks on the car. We make together a claybar and 2 steps polishings on the car.

1. My friend with is PC and orange pad and M105
2. and me with my flex 3401 with white pad anf M205.

has the spot light the swirls and holograms is eliminate. but at the sun light we see a little hologram again. I know my friend is beginner but I thought is would be better.

So if I understand you correctly. The car you're working on has holograms, that is it has swirls inflicted by the mis-use of a rotary buffer?


Then together, you two did this,

1. My friend with is PC and orange pad and M105
2. and me with my flex 3401 with white pad anf M205.

That is,

You're friend removed the holograms using a cutting pad with M105 and Porter Cable DA Polisher

You followed him using your Flex 3401 using a white polishing pad and M205

But after the last step you still see micro-marring in the paint?

See this thread for pictures of holograms and micro-marring.

The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring

Originally Posted by BenSRT

So, did you think I can make better with a rotary buffer than Flex 3403 ? Can I make a great job with the same various agressivity foam pad than a DA cause I'm scary to use a wool pad.

thanks guys

Ben

You can remove the micro-marring using a rotary buffer and the paint will likely look really good. Then, if you were to start washing the car and remove all the polishing oils or any wax or paint sealant you apply you will very likely see holograms show up in the paint.

You will be trading one machine inflicted scratch pattern for another. I would recommend finishing out with a different polish and a softer pad. Get the SF 4000 or SF 4500 from Menzerna as a black lake country foam finishing pad for either the PC or the Flex or both and then re-polish the car and afterwards seal her up with a wax or paint sealant.

Here's an article I wrote to help people understand the names and part numbers of Menzerna products.

Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers



Also see my article here on holograms, also referred to as Rotary Buffer Swirls or Trails

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer


It's very in-depth and talks about the topic of all the people that say they finish out using only a rotary buffer but forget to tell us how they prove they left no holograms... no one ever includes that part...

At least when I go through their posting history on this forum or any forum I never find their in-depth explanation of how they chemically stripped the paint and then inspected under multiple light sources to prove they truly did indeed leave a swirl free, hologram free finish.


A rotary buffer is a great tool when used correctly but it's not going to solve all your paint polishing problems. You used the two tools to leave a swirl free, flawless finish.

You should have dialed in process using a TEST SPOT and inspected the Test Spot in good light and at that point you would have seen the problem and then came to the forum and shared with us what you were seeing.

M205 doesn't always finish out perfect on all paints, especially softer paints and especially using a forced rotation DA Polisher, it can leave micro-marring.

[BenSRT]

M205 not give always great finish? humm.... I thinks I'm not update and come here often. I always knew if you want to make a great finish to remove swirl severals here advice combo M105/M205 and a wax or sealant of my choice. I never try Menzerna products but I thinks seriously begin to learn on this products.

Let me know if I'm correct but after a polishing process with M105 and LC orange pad it's normal to have haze. But after polishing with M205 and a LC white this hazing goes and the paint is clear ?

The car at my friend had hollogram make by a wool pad and rotary buffer in a esthetic shop. After the 2 step polishings. in the direct sun we saw a very little 3D effect, very little. It's that I not understand. But I know my friend it is a beginner... it was the first time.

How about the combo Wolfgang WSR/WFG?

thanks for you advice

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

Originally Posted by BenSRT

M205 not give always great finish? humm.... I thinks I'm not update and come here often.

Not always on all paint systems.

Keep in mind anyone working on a white or light colored car, if there is any haze left behind they would have a hard time seeing it but they could post on a zillion forums how great the finish looks.

The true test of any product is on clear coated black paint because black shows everything. If a product works on clear coated black paint then chances are good it will work good on any color whether you can see the true results or not. If a product doesn't work great on clear coated black paint then chances are good it's not going to look great on any other color but your eyes might not be able to detect the results.

Originally Posted by BenSRT

Let me know if I'm correct but after a polishing process with M105 and LC orange pad it's normal to have haze. But after polishing with M205 and a LC white this hazing goes and the paint is clear ?

Then the product is working. You stated in your first post

has the spot light the swirls and holograms is eliminate. but at the sun light we see a little hologram again. I know my friend is beginner but I thought is would be better.

So it's possible you didn't get all the rotary buffer swirls or holograms out during the correction step with the M105, if that's the case then re-do that step and make sure you read this first to make sure you or your buddy are not making any of the common mistakes, like tackling too large an area at one time or wrong speed, or not enough downward pressure, etc.


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide

Originally Posted by BenSRT

How about the combo Wolfgang WSR/WFG?

The Wolfgang Twins have always produced a show car finish on ANY paint system I've used them on...

The Wolfgang Twins

[BenSRT]

Sorry if I'm repeated!!! So You have reason because the car I worked it's a Dodge srt-4 2004 solid black so the combo M105/M205 did not work. But My miskate is had to let my friend try at her first polishing car make the most important step....remove swirls. But I never try Menzerna products. witch combo of agressive compound,medium compound and finish compound you advice me in the selection?

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

Originally Posted by BenSRT

the car I worked it's a Dodge srt-4 2004 solid black so the combo M105/M205 did not work.

witch combo of aggressive compound,medium compound and finish compound you advice me in the selection?

The M105 is great for removing the swirls, then finish out using the Menzerna SF 4000 and it should look perfect. Use a cutting pad with the M105 and a polishing pad with the SF 4000, if you want to go further then re-polish using the SF 4500 and a finishing pad.


Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers

[BobbyG]

Originally Posted by BenSRT

Sorry if I'm repeated!!! So You have reason because the car I worked it's a Dodge srt-4 2004 solid black so the combo M105/M205 did not work. But My miskate is had to let my friend try at her first polishing car make the most important step....remove swirls. But I never try Menzerna products. witch combo of agressive compound,medium compound and finish compound you advice me in the selection?

Meguiar's M105 & M205 are great products and with the right pad will be able to correct most finish defects... Meguiar's M105 takes some getting used to as it works and dries very quickly..

If you'd like to try Menzerna products these are the three I'd recommend.

Compound - PG 1000 – PowerGloss Compound (POS34A)
Polish - PF 2500 – Power Finish Polish (PO203)
Finishing Polish - SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)

Here's some great information by Mike Phillips that will help you if you need it.

• Sectional Pass With a DA Polisher
• Removing Swirls
• DA Trouble Shooting Guide
• Waxing With a DA Polisher
• How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher
• DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing
• How to MAXIMIZE your DA Polisher

Does this help at all?