Please help me....what's wrong with my paint and how can I fix it?

[trishydishy]

Hi, my name is Trisha and am not an auto detailer. I am in need of some serious help and after reading some of your posts I have decided there is no where else to turn to ask this question and to get answers but from the professionals on this site. Let me say in advance, thank you for taking the time to read my post and if you have any answers, I welcome them.

Here's the issue....I have a 2001 Honda Accord (white). I brought it used in 2004 with very low miles. Since 2004, I have waxed my car every 4-6 months. I usually take it to a local car wash and get it waxed there. I've noticed in the past year that my paint seems to hold and absorb dirt into the paint. It actually looks like someone has taken dirt and rubbed it on my car. I've neve seen anything like it. For example, I take it to the car wash and the car is still extremely dirty. They have put it through the was for the second time b/c I complained and the dirt is still there. Last year I had my car simonized by a well known man/company (Charlie Simoniz on Long Island). When I got the car back, you could still see the dirt but not as much. According to him, he clayed the car as well as waxed it. This guy has an amazing reputation in my town but I was very upset when I picked my car up. The man is now in his 80's so I felt very bad pointing this out to him. Therafter, paying $200, I was very disappointed. My husband used Mother's cleaner wax on my car a week later and it helped but a week after that, the dirt appeared again. I also notice when it rains, my car looks even worse. When I noticed this happening, I brought my car to a body shop to ask them their thoughts and they had no answer for me. My father then took my car and waxed it with Nufinish 2x and was able to remove the dirt and I have to say, it looked the best that it looked in a long time and it looked good for about 4 months. Which brings me to the present time... My father hurt his knee so I decided to take my car to the car wash to get them to wax it...This is a month and a half ago....after a week of getting the car waxed, it started to look terrible again. Can anyone explain to me what is going on with my car? I am very disappointed and embarassed to drive it around as I am not a person who neglects their car at all. I don't abuse it and I do try to do the right thing and take care of the paint and interior. My husband and dad said it looks as if there is not clear coat on the car. The paint is not peeling or chipping as clear coat would if it was coming off. I am really at a loss on what to do about my paint and how I should go about detailing the car. I am supposed to wax the car this weekend with my dad.

I've read online that the paint's pores could be open and that is why it looks the way it looks. I didn't think this could be true and paint is not a breathing thing. I know my dad used to use LIquid Glass on his vette years ago and I was thinking of trying that. I am not sure these days what the appropriate products to use are or even where I should begin. I've read that paint sealant will seal the pores, etc. I called a local detail place by me and they mentioned something about sanding the car with a light sand paper? Is this wetsanding? They charge $65 per hour and to be honest with you, I really couldn't afford to have this done over the course of a whole day....

Can any of you please help me and steer me in the right direction on what to do to get my cars paint looking nice? I miss the shiny glow. I am tired of driving around in a filth mobile... Has anyone every heard of this? If you need pics, let me know and I will take some and post them to give you a better idea of what the car looks like.

Thank you so much for your time and I look forward to hearing all your suggestions. I am sorry this is such a long post.

[budman3]

First off, to AGO! I personally have not heard of this paint condition but a picture would surely help. That being said, certain makes of Honda's and Acura's came from the factory without clear coat, as a single stage paint. If that is the case (I will do some research for you) what you are seeing is probably oxidation. You'll have to either buy or have someone use a paint cleaner and a machine to polish the vehicle. The oxidation is essentially dead paint. It can get chalky and faded over time. Since the clear coat was never on there, you won't notice any flaking or chipping. Autogeek carries plenty of products and we can send you in the right direction if you are willing to do it yourself, or you can try and find someone in your area that can help you out (the right way ).

[MadOzodi]

Hi Trisha,

If you can, please post some pics of the paint. Try to capture some shots where the light reflects (if it still does) of the surface of the paint. Hard to do with a white car, but the more pics the better the forum will be able to advise on which direction you need to go to correct the paint.

[budman3]

OK, after some quick research, "Taffeta White" on Honda Accords does not have a clear coat, it is single stage. On some vehicles it does come with a clear coat, such as the Odyssey and the Pilot but the Accord and Civic does not.

Just for kicks, "San Marino Red" and does not have a clear coat either. In 2001, Honda had a tinted clear coat on S2000s and the Insight called "New Formula Red"

As for Acura's, their "Championship White" does not have a clear coat either. Their "New Formula Red" and "Milano Red" have a tinted clear coat.

So it is very likely what you are seeing is simply oxidation. The cleaner waxes will hide it for awhile, but as you can tell you need it removed. A simple paint cleaner and either some elbow grease or by using a machine, will remove the oxidation and restore your shine.

[trishydishy]

Thank you very much for both of your replies (Budman3 and MadOzodi). Budman3, thank you so much for doing research in finding out that Honda does not clear coat their white Civic's and Accord's. You know, that really bothers me! I can't believe they don't do this to these cars. Why wouldn't they? It's funny b/c I called American Honda this morning to ask them this and the guy said he couldn't comment if a car was clear coated or not. I thought I read something online about that this morning but I didn't believe it. Thank you both for taking the time out to help me. As asked, I am posting up pics of my car. I took so many and in the shade it seems some look blue. I tried to take some pics in the sunlight but the sun was going down in my development. If you look closely, you can see streak marks and that is the dirt that is embedded in the paint. Can you recommend a very good brand of products that I can use for the car? I know some manufacturers are better than others and I'd like to use good quality products to get this done. Thanks again.

Please note, the pics don't do the dirtiness of the car justice. It looks much worse in person.

[budman3]

A good paint cleaner is Klasse All in One (KAIO) (Klasse ALL-IN-ONE Auto Polish, Klasse All In One, klasse aio, Acrylic polish). Using that with a foam applicator or terry cloth towel should help your situation out, it will require some elbow grease, a dual action polisher will get the job done faster. But doing it by hand should still work just fine. Here is a link to the 2001 service bulletin: http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.ne...ept%202000.pdf. I looked at a 2004 bulletin and the white is still single stage, as for the reasoning, your guess is as good as mine.

[Largebore]

wow good research Budman, now i will give you a new challenge if you will accept it.. 1998 Toyoto. I think it is the Camry. Clearcoat or not?

[trishydishy]

Originally Posted by budman3

A good paint cleaner is Klasse All in One (KAIO) (Klasse ALL-IN-ONE Auto Polish, Klasse All In One, klasse aio, Acrylic polish). Using that with a foam applicator or terry cloth towel should help your situation out, it will require some elbow grease, a dual action polisher will get the job done faster. But doing it by hand should still work just fine. Here is a link to the 2001 service bulletin: http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.ne...ept%202000.pdf. I looked at a 2004 bulletin and the white is still single stage, as for the reasoning, your guess is as good as mine.

Budman, thanks for the recommendation. You don't think Klasse All in One will be too harsh on the paint since there is no clear coat? So you are saying this All in One works as a cleaner as well as a polish? My husband has Mother's Cleaner wax which worked on my car last time but I guess it didn't hold up well b/c we never put anything over it (such as a polish). In general, when you use a cleaner wax, do you need to seal it with something else when you have completed with the cleaner wax? If so, what do you prefer, wax, polish or sealant? I was thinking of using the Klasse and applying a polish over it such as Liquid Glass or something. Would that seal the paint so it won't keep absorbing dirt and rain? Thank you for sending me the link to the OEM Honda report. I think it's just crazy that they are allowed to get away with not putting clear coat on all their cars. Do most manufacturers not put clear coat on their cars? I was thinking of going with a 2007 or newer Toyota Camry for my next car (white). I can't believe we (the consumers) have to worry about whether the manufacturers do this to all their cars or not. Who would've known! Thanks for all your help.

[M3Cosmos]

I've worked with a Honda with the same color white w/out clear and it is pretty easy to deal with. You are going to need to have it machine polished to get the oxidation off. I simply used my PC with Meg's cleaner wax to get the oxidation off then put a coat of wax on it. It has been about 6 months and the paint still looks good.

Bottom line, you're going to have to use a machine and then protect it. I would suggest a good sealant in addition to the wax.

[budman3]

Originally Posted by Largebore

wow good research Budman, now i will give you a new challenge if you will accept it.. 1998 Toyoto. I think it is the Camry. Clearcoat or not?

It is really hard to tell, it seems some factories apply the clear coat on certain colors and another factory does not, kind of hit or miss. Also it depends on color. Lexus sometimes doesn't clear their black cars ... many believe a single stage paint looks a lot better than cleared paint. The first time I heard about newer vehicles not coming with clear coat was when it was posted on DC a few years ago. In that thread it was brought up that some years of the Taffeta white was CC and other years (2001 and 2004, that I know of) there was no clear applied. I don't know of a database that has the specific information about clear coats and whatnot but I haven't found anything about Camry's.

Originally Posted by trishydishy

Budman, thanks for the recommendation. You don't think Klasse All in One will be too harsh on the paint since there is no clear coat? So you are saying this All in One works as a cleaner as well as a polish? My husband has Mother's Cleaner wax which worked on my car last time but I guess it didn't hold up well b/c we never put anything over it (such as a polish). In general, when you use a cleaner wax, do you need to seal it with something else when you have completed with the cleaner wax? If so, what do you prefer, wax, polish or sealant? I was thinking of using the Klasse and applying a polish over it such as Liquid Glass or something. Would that seal the paint so it won't keep absorbing dirt and rain? Thank you for sending me the link to the OEM Honda report. I think it's just crazy that they are allowed to get away with not putting clear coat on all their cars. Do most manufacturers not put clear coat on their cars? I was thinking of going with a 2007 or newer Toyota Camry for my next car (white). I can't believe we (the consumers) have to worry about whether the manufacturers do this to all their cars or not. Who would've known! Thanks for all your help.

The Klasse AIO is a chemical cleaner with no abrasives in the formula, so it is very very safe. I have only done spot tests with KAIO on my Jeep's hardtop to remove oxidation by hand and it worked, but doing a whole car by hand will be a lot of work. Thankfully KAIO is easy to work with and remember that a little goes a long way.

Also, the word polish is used synonymously with many words in detailing. Manufacturer's use the word polish in many different ways, making it very confusing. My understanding of the word polish is that it is an abrasive product that is used by hand or buffer to remove swirl marks, light scratches and marring. A stronger polish is also known as a compound. A polish usually does not have any sealant or wax in it (zero protection), its only purpose is to remove defects.

The cleaner waxes that you have, the Mothers, NuFinish and Liquid Glass are all decent products, however, you will find using the KAIO and then following with either a wax or sealant will yield better and longer lasting results. If you want long lasting results I would get the Duragloss 105 Sealant (Duragloss Total Performance Polish (TPP) #105), again using the word polish "incorrectly" per se.

Here is a picture from OCDetail on a single stage red truck using Klasse AIO, showing how well it removes oxidation: