Why did you wet sand?

[Radarryan]

Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but I am just a detailing enthusiast and not a professional. I recently watched the video of Mike in Nebraska restoring the '69 AMC. The panels were all freshly painted with three coats of base coat and four coats of clear.

Now, I understand the need to sand down a scratch to remove it, and then compound, polish, and seal the paint, but in this video Mike sanded the fresh paint. Now Mike (also, if I am wrong on details please forgive in advance) explained that he did this to create a show car finish, but from the looks of it, the paint was already flawless. I mean, hey, it was brand new! Just painted that week!

I don't know why there was the need to sand down the paint in the first place. Isn't the point of detailing to restore it to a show car finish - just like it was out of the paint booth? From the looks of it, it seems like a lot of work to sand every panel, then compound, then polish.

So, any and all input regarding why this is a necessary step for creating a show car finish is greatly appreciated. Mike, if you read this - GREAT job with all your recent projects. I can only imagine how good they look in person!

[quiksilver_ben3]

For one, "Orange Peel".

[margallar]

ever observed the skin of an orange, looks bumpy doesnt it, now sometimes paints also have such a texture, this reduces the quality of reflections, by sanding and then compounding Mike got rid of that texture to obtain a flat surface so now the reflections look flawless as if you were looking in a mirror.

[Mike Phillips]

For one, "Orange Peel".

Correct.

I have some picture that show the orange peel and I'll try to post them today.

ever observed the skin of an orange, looks bumpy doesn't it, now sometimes paints also have such a texture, this reduces the quality of reflections, by sanding and then compounding Mike got rid of that texture to obtain a flat surface so now the reflections look flawless as if you were looking in a mirror.

Correct.

A perfect show car finish is perfectly flat, no orange peel, no surface texture, no DIP no runs or sags.

A perfectly flat surface also has high D.O.I.

D.O.I. = Distinction of Image

D.O.I. is about how perfectly an image is reflected back from a surface. A mirror has 100% D.O.I. The goal from wetsanding, cutting and polishing a fresh paint job it to maximize the D.O.I.

Another way to look at it would be to take things to extremes. Ben laid down a very nice paint job with only light orange peel over most of the car with a few areas of heavier orange peel.

Take a look at this car with extreme orange peel... this is a car I used for one of my Detailing Boot Camp Classes to teach guys how to wetsand by hand and by machine and then how to use a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks. I actually have not seen any other classes where you get to do this kind of fun stuff...


1971 GTO - Wetsand, Cut and Buff


Here's just two pictures from the above thread to show extreme orange peel and then extreme orange peel removed...


Extreme Orange Peel





Orange Peel Removed - Note how clearly images are now reflected...

[ken tuep]

There are many reasons, but the short answer is to make it perfect in doi(distinction of image). Which basically making it as perfect of a reflection as possible. If you've ever seen a vehicle fresh out of the paint booth, you will know most aren't perfect. Even the best painters can have an off day, and get trash in the paint, sags, runs, too much texture. The best way to remedy these issues is with a bit(or a lot) of wetsanding and buffing.

[ken tuep]

You beat me to it Mike! lol

[Mike Phillips]

Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but I am just a detailing enthusiast and not a professional. I recently watched the video of Mike in Nebraska restoring the '69 AMC. The panels were all freshly painted with three coats of base coat and four coats of clear.

Now, I understand the need to sand down a scratch to remove it, and then compound, polish, and seal the paint, but in this video Mike sanded the fresh paint. Now Mike (also, if I am wrong on details please forgive in advance) explained that he did this to create a show car finish, but from the looks of it, the paint was already flawless. I mean, hey, it was brand new! Just painted that week!

Pertaining to the portion of your post that I made bold above...

From the time laps video and all the other videos, the paint can "look" like it was in excellent shape, that is a true show car finish with no orange peel. If you could have been there in person then you could have seen the true and accurate finish.

Pictures don't always tell the true story and this is why I invest a lot of time to document the true condition of the project cars we work on otherwise you have some smarty pants that thinks otherwise.

Here's a very good example of how I documented with pictures and video the true condition of the finish on a show truck and I do this for all the cars we work on...

1954 Ford F-100 - Extreme Makeover - Process and products used

Here's how it looked when it first arrived, most people would think this looks pretty good...



I moved the truck outside and used bright, overhead sunlight to show the true condition of the finish.

True Condition





Here's how it looked when it left and still to this day...







Looks like melting butter...








Here's another one...
1970 Barracuda Extreme Makeover


So here's how the car looked when Tommy arrived with it at Autogeek... looks pretty good huh?




Here's the true condition...










Here's how it left...








Have some fun and click the link below and start going through one thread after another and see the before condition of the project cars we work on documented for bot before, process and after. Something I don't see on any other forum...



Pictures from Autogeek's Car of the Week!

I don't know why there was the need to sand down the paint in the first place. Isn't the point of detailing to restore it to a show car finish - just like it was out of the paint booth? From the looks of it, it seems like a lot of work to sand every panel, then compound, then polish.

Correct and this is to remove orange peel, surface imperfections and create a completely flat, true show car finish. All the top car designers have this done to their creations after their creations come out of the paint booth.

Chip Foose invited me to his Overhaulin garage years ago and talked to me about having me do all his wetsanding, cutting and buffing and like you see in the AMX project, all the body panels for his custom creations, (not the TV show), would be painted individually and later re-assembled to the body shell and he wanted each panel or component sanded and buffed to perfection.


On the set of Overhaulin with Chip Foose at SEMA 2012

So, any and all input regarding why this is a necessary step for creating a show car finish is greatly appreciated. Mike, if you read this - GREAT job with all your recent projects. I can only imagine how good they look in person!

You asked great questions and I actually tried to explain some of the answers ahead of time in the videos, I know I explained that fresh paint jobs have orange peel and that our job was to remove the orange peel.

I also explained D.O.I. in one of the videos, it might be one of the videos that Yancy took for another project, not one of the live feed projects but I know I brought up the terms orange peel and D.O.I. and then explained them.


I also have an article here that goes into depth on the topic of wetsanding and I encourage you and others to read it as after reading it not only will you have a better understanding of the terms and the process but you'll also be able to talk about the topic at higher level with your car buddies...

This article can be found on my article list under this heading...


Wetsanding - Dampsanding - Colorsanding Topics





Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint

[DAnewbie]

now i am new to this, but i allways thought the orange peel efect came from the base coat and not the clear coat. so wet sanding would take place before shooting the clear. correct me if i am wrong.

[Mike Phillips]

For everyone that will read this into the future... here are the related links to what the OP aka Radarryan is referencing...


Wetsanding a car from start to finish - Time Lapse Video


1969 AMX Wetsanding Videos - Nebraska Help in the Heartland Project



1969 AMX - Wetsanded, Cut and Polished by Team Autogeek



And here's the thread that started this project....

Official Invitation to MIKE PHILLIPS!!!!!! - Accepted!

[Mike Phillips]

now i am new to this, but i always thought the orange peel effect came from the base coat and not the clear coat. so wet sanding would take place before shooting the clear. correct me if i am wrong.

Orange peel or a non-flat surface can happen for any of the coatings. Some painters will sand throughout the process and some will sand after all the paint is sprayed, that comes down to their goal and someone's budget, whether it's the painter's personal ride and thus his time and budget or a customer's project and their budget because all of this type of work is time consuming not to mention a lot of work and even risk.

Good question...