Opti Coat (OC) or Opti Guard )OG) Revenation

[Old Tiger]

Originally Posted by umi000

Where exactly do you get this? The car appeared to have gone to some rough locations, and without having another car spending the same time at the same location, you can't really say whether or not OG did better than just unprotected paint. Heck, having it survive underneath all that iron contamination seems pretty impressive to me.

In fact I think it is less permeable than Clear Coat. All the Iron was on the surface so it released in volume. Iron gets embedded in clear and doesnt release near as easy!

[RMM]

Originally Posted by umi000

Where exactly do you get this? The car appeared to have gone to some rough locations, and without having another car spending the same time at the same location, you can't really say whether or not OG did better than just unprotected paint...

I see your point. However, my opinion wasn't only based on Old Tiger's experience but on all the other cases reported recently - I don't think the other cars have experienced the same harsh environments as the Yaris.

Originally Posted by umi000

...Heck, having it survive underneath all that iron contamination seems pretty impressive to me.

To me also (I stated that in my post). I don't compare OG/OC with anything on the market - only to OEM clear coat.
Optimum is probably my prefered detail products brand: I only wish they had better distribution channels in Europe!

[RMM]

Originally Posted by Old Tiger

IME, ReLoad is the Best value topper. Permanon is superb but costs >> $ more than ReLoad!

Thank you very much for your answer

[Chris@Optimum]

This thread is an excellent example of what I've been suggesting as a first diagnosis step. Something sitting atop the coating WILL change the beading...but by no means implys the coating is gone. A strong wash and mild clay is what I have suggested as a first step for those who see beading diminish. Good job, Jim!

There are some cases where the prep didn't allow the coating to bond well and it was actually gone after a few months. With our product holding up for 8+ years on test vehicles we know were prepped right, I can safely and confidently say that if it has actually "disappeared", then it was a prep issue.

For example, one of the posters whom I helped diagnose had beading stop only on the roof. When we determined that it was gone, I asked about how each section was prepped. Then we exposed that Optimum Polish was used on the majority of the vehicle, but Meguars 205 was used on the roof where the failure to bond well occurred. This is by no means a slam on M205...just know that some polishes leave things behind that can prove difficult to remove.

Most of the prep questions I get are along the lines of "what can I get by with using" instead of asking for clarification the directions we have posted...and I think these liberties some are taking are to blame for performance inconsistent with our assertions about Optimum Coatings. I have not had a single report of bad performance when Optimum Polshes were used, followed by water dampened MF wipedown or an ONR wash, then following the application directions on the label.

I have also shown concern in all my posts for applications being "handled" too much. Or buffed too much with a towel after initial application. The product only needs to be spread evenly over the section, not buffed in with ANY amount of pressure. The side to side, up/down, and/or circle passes are to be done quickly and effortlessly just to spread it out...not to "work" the coating. As soon as you have coverage, stop touching it or you'll likely thin the coating. Then when 90% of the section has flashed to clear, you can go over the areas that haven't flashed to clear lightly/quickly with a paint safe MF. This is not like removing residue so no pressure is needed. You are only removing the wet/thick area of over application. No pressure is needed because even just spreading it out will prevent dry high spots. Also, if you do still get a high spot, go ahead and let the coating cure for a day or so before removing it. This will ensure proper bonding and prevent lackluster beading from touching it while it dries. I always have my clients come back for an inspection and complimentary hand wash within the first 30 days. They can point out spots and it will ensure that you are removing as little coating as possible.

As for the excessive bleeding: that is not an example of permeation, but in fact the opposite. All of the contaminant were "stopped" at/by the coating. Had the car not had Opti Coat, you would have seen penetration into the clear like we do at lots in Ford & Chrysler plants in Mexico where new cars await deployment. It is very contaminated around rail yards and industrial areas and that's why even new cars need decon washes and claying. It should be noted too how easily the contaminants came off compared to OEM clears. Likely there was only a thin layer that was able to stick (I don't think bond or penetrate is accurate given the returned beading) and the rest wash just built up on top of that. Did Jim mention the wash method and frequency here, or did I miss it? I'm curious about the locale where it sits and maintenance wash process, frequency.

[Hoytman]

Originally Posted by Chris@Optimum

...we exposed that Optimum Polish was used on the majority of the vehicle, but Meguars 205 was used on the roof where the failure to bond well occurred. This is by no means a slam on M205...just know that some polishes leave things behind that can prove difficult to remove.

Originally Posted by Chris@Optimum

I have not had a single report of bad performance when Optimum Polshes were used, followed by water dampened MF wipedown or an ONR wash, then following the application directions on the label.

Does the underlined above mean that no matter what polish I use as long as it's followed by an ONR wash (strong one perhaps) that opti-coat/guard should have no issues? In other words M205 followed by ONR.

OR

Are you saying that a simple "water dampened MF wipedown" will work after optimum polish, and/or M205?

OR

Are you saying that optimum polishes followed by ONR is the only way to assure adhesion of OC/OG? Obviously, there's some, "synergistic compatibility" going on with this choice as Mike Phillips would say. LOL!

Originally Posted by Chris@Optimum

Then when 90% of the section has flashed to clear, you can go over the areas that haven't flashed to clear lightly/quickly with a paint safe MF. This is not like removing residue so no pressure is needed.

I'm somewhat confused by that statement. So, when 90% flashes clear, you only go over the areas that haven't flashed, instead of all of it?

[Chris@Optimum]

I'm saying those that:

1. Use Optimum Polishes
2. And either a) use a water dampened MF to remove the Optimum Polish residue or b) an ONR wash to remove the Optimum Polish residue
3. Then follow the instructions on the Opti Coat label

Have not reported any issues. Yes, there is synergistic compatability. It's not the only way to ensure adhesion, but it is the easier.

You only "need" to go over what hasn't flashed clear. If its clear then there is not going to be a high spot. You "can" go over the whole section, but again...that's a what can I get by with question. There is no residue to remove so all you are doing is removing excess product from the places it is too thick, in order to prevent a blemish.

I consistently use the product as outlined and get consistent results. I think some of the confusion stems from all the comparisons of our coating to extended life sealants like CQUARTZ. These products are not the same tech and application instructions shouldn't be interchanged. There is no residue to buff off later with OC. OC doesn't need to be topped or boosted. OC doesn't wear off from normal maintenance over a couple of years, but lasts until you deliberately remove it abrasively. This is not a slam on CQuartz, but a distinction I've made since the beginning...these aren't apples to apples even with Finest. Opti Coat is just wipe it on and remove/blend excess before it dries. When I demo applications at SEMA and Detailfest, everyone is amazed at the simplicity of it. The worry of error from the word permanent makes people over think it, be too cautious, go too slow, wipe too much, etc.

[Old Tiger]

Chris, my son lived in apartments. He would go thru a touchless from time to time. Im glad you validated my theory that the contaminants couldnt penetrate the OG. I dont get that reaction when I decon an uncoated vehicle and I did one much worse than this. I had an amazing foamm clay bar replacement that I used after the Iron X. Chris do you and Dr. G. want me to post a picture of it? I only use Optimum Polishes and compound on the cars I coat. I do this part time and I dont want to do heavy compounding. That being said, your compound is a dang good one. I usually just need Polish II!

[Hoytman]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

[octane]

Chris, I am probably guilty of overthinking the OC process... I'm pretty sure I buffed too much, now the problem I have is that after a good wash with some apc added, water still bead off 80% of the paint surface, the rest I probably removed the OC when buffing the high spots... (my fault)

what should I do, polish the whole car then reapply? or can I just reapply without removing the OC 2.0 that is still there?

when Old Tiger says that OC is layerable, is it true for all OC 2.0 produced, or was there a change in product recently?

thanks

[Chris@Optimum]

Originally Posted by Old Tiger

Chris, my son lived in apartments. He would go thru a touchless from time to time. Im glad you validated my theory that the contaminants couldnt penetrate the OG. I dont get that reaction when I decon an uncoated vehicle and I did one much worse than this. I had an amazing foamm clay bar replacement that I used after the Iron X. Chris do you and Dr. G. want me to post a picture of it? I only use Optimum Polishes and compound on the cars I coat. I do this part time and I dont want to do heavy compounding. That being said, your compound is a dang good one. I usually just need Polish II!

I think we may have uncovered the origin of the issue. Touchless washes use very strong detergents that don't fully remove the road film that accumulates on a vehicle. With experience on interiors, we can learn that not rinsing detergents thoroughly from carpets will actually "attract" dirt faster...and that'd be no different with the exterior. Not fully removing the road film with a hand wash from time to time and a few washes not fully rinsing away the chemicals would allow the surface to start holding contaminants. Just take a white towel with you and dry off the car after a touchless wash to confirm my theory.

The good news is that Opti Coat did not allow them to penetrate like they would have on OEM clear! I'm glad you were able to get to the issue without too much effort. Also, its good to hear you like the polishes. A lot of time has gone into them and we are always trying to improve!