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Old 06-19-2012, 09:31 PM   #1
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Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

I spent this weekend working on my car which is obviously nothing new to those reading this post but was chatting a fellow Autopian forum member via telephone and we discussed his new Griot’s RO polisher. He said how much he was enjoying it and told him I hope it proved as reliable as his PC 7424XP.

So I innocently asked him if his paint passed "the plastic bag test" since he was obviously polishing his car. He then tells me he's never done a plastic bag test so he immediately hung up the phone and went out into his garage. Of course, I get a call right back right back saying how horrified he was and that it sounded like he was rubbing his hand across sand paper. Not good. Even worse, he had OptiCoated the hood, front fenders and bumper of the car a few weeks ago and spent a good deal of time polishing and prepping the nose of the car. The OptiCoated sections are by far the worse in terms of bonded contamination. FWIW, none of this contamination is visible and cannot be felt with your bare hands. In fact to your bare hand, the paint fells great. I suspect it’s probably a blend of tree “sap” and environmental fallout which is very prevalent in New England that is the source of his problem, but hey - it's a daily driver. The horizontal panels are the worse of course, doors/vertical panels aren’t too bad according to my friend.

So we've been going round & round for several days about the necessity of getting the paint clean enough to pass the plastic bag test and what are the steps that will assure success. My friend is feeling dejected and frustrated that all his efforts were for nothing, that he's uncertain of what he's going to do going forward. For me it's an easy decision - paint needs to pass the plastic bag test. So please let me share with you my process but in the end, I think everyone decides whether this is important or not. But here's my bottom line, without having a perfectly clean surface, all your doing is sealing in the grit not to mention inhibiting the LSP to truly bond with the paint surface. And yes I know, the contaminates come back almost immediately if it's your daily driver-but I'll get rid of that the next time I seal the paint.

Though no scratchs, rids, or swirls were/are visible on my white A6, I didn't think it was glossy enough though, (which is another post entirely-haha) so here's was what I did:

Washed the car with Ultima Paint Guard Wash, Iron X for decon (these was more red on the ground then on the paint so I must question its value) and Wolfgang clay to get the worse of the contaminants off.

2-3 passes of Ultimate Compound using a LC tangerine hydro tech pad (pc speed @ 6) followed by 2-3 passes with M#205 using a fresh tangerine pad. (pc speed @ 5) This was also the first time I tried the KBM of pad priming & cleaning which really seemed to help matters immensely. I would strongly recommend giving it a try if you haven't done so already.

At this point the paint is looking fantastic but it still does not completely pass the plastic bag test which was shocking to me. Go back to the cabinet and grab some Wolfgang Paint Enhancer with a LC flat white pad and do a small test panel. Just so you know, applied the cleanser like I would a sealant since the paint was so clean. 2-3 moderate to quick passes (pc speed @ 5) did the job. Finally, molten glass. Cleansed the entire car and follow that with a IPA wipe. Surface is now perfect. Crimson pad (pc @ 4) with some DP Poly Coat Sealant w/bonding agent allowing it to sit for 2 hrs and then buff off by hand - wait overnight and do a second coat.

Whether you're doing a 1 or 2 stage polishing job, it's my belief that you will need to cleanse the paint as well. But as part of the Autopian forum discussion, it's been recommended that I switch my clay to Clay Magic Blue which should significantly help matters - which I've already ordered and is on the way. I can only hope that it works and eliminates the cleansing step, but that's yet to be seen and I'm skeptical. If anyone here has a suggestion on how to eliminate the contamination/grit with less work, PLEASE, bring it on!

Anyway, here are some shots of the car finished & grit free. And thanks Nick for all the help, couldn't have done it without you!!








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Old 06-19-2012, 09:44 PM   #2
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

The baggie test is for ppl who don't know what they are doing
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:48 PM   #3
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If I did detailing as a profession the Baggie test would be the first thing I showed to all customers, it's horrifying!!!
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:51 PM   #4
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by addysdaddy View Post

Whether you're doing a 1 or 2 stage polishing job, it's my belief that you will need to cleanse the paint as well. But as part of the Autopian forum discussion, it's been recommended that I switch my clay to Clay Magic Blue which should significantly help matters - which I've already ordered and is on the way. I can only hope that it works and eliminates the cleansing step, but that's yet to be seen and I'm skeptical. If anyone here has a suggestion on how to eliminate the contamination/grit with less work, PLEASE, bring it on!

Anyway, here are some shots of the car finished & grit free. And thanks Nick for all the help, couldn't have done it without you!!
I highly recommend using Ultima Elastrofoam . It really makes claying easy.After wash and Elastrofoam my A6 always passes the baggie test. Since my car is well maintained I find that IronX leaves almost no purple except around trim.

I also recommend using 501/601 (see many posts) It makes your white really white. You can probably pick it up locally.

PS I notice that your yellow reflectors are integral with you headlights (unlike mine) One less thing to tape off and polish around. A much cleaner look
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:19 AM   #5
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Can you please explain the KBM of pad priming? Thanks, Dave
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:09 AM   #6
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

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The baggie test is for ppl who don't know what they are doing
How so? There are several How To videos made my Mike Phillips and others all over youtube and they all universally suggest checking your paint first via the plastic bag test. IMO, no different then taking a flash light out to a dark garage to inspect the paint. Your trying to gain information on the current status of the paint. What u do with that information, well that's a different story. And my hope from starting this thread was to try and gain some insight from other forum members who can help shorten the process without compromising the quality of the final result.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:05 AM   #7
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by addysdaddy View Post
...was chatting a fellow Autopian forum member via telephone

...I innocently asked him if his paint passed "the plastic bag test"...

He then tells me he's never done a plastic bag test so he immediately hung up the phone and went out into his garage. Of course, I get a call right back right back saying how horrified he was and that it sounded like he was rubbing his hand across sand paper.
Not good.
Even worse, he had OptiCoated the hood, front fenders and bumper of the car a few weeks ago and spent a good deal of time polishing and prepping the nose of the car. The OptiCoated sections are by far the worse in terms of bonded contamination.

....My friend is feeling dejected and frustrated that all his efforts were for nothing, that he's uncertain of what he's going to do going forward.
RE: Your Autopian friend's vehicle and Opti-coating

-I've noticed some folks, that have Opti-coated their vehicles, report/claim that the Opti-coating, itself, doesn't feel, for a better lack of term: Smooth.

(Many, if not all, of these OC-reporters have, no doubt, performed the baggie-test to ensure that all existing bonded contaminates
were removed prior to Opti-coating their vehicles...It appears your friend did not do so.)


Does this mean that:

-If bonded contaminates are not removed from a vehicle's CC paint-film prior to an OC application they will protrude through the OC, resulting in them being felt via the baggie-test.

-(Even if a vehicle's CC paint-film has passed the baggie-test prior to an OC application)...OC, itself, will 'accept' further/additional contaminates...once again resulting in it not feeling smooth. (Would this hold true before, during, and/or after OC's "curing-process")


If so...

-How, then, does a person ensure/make OC...'Smooth' enough to pass a baggie-test, without OC's stated performance characteristics...being affected?

-Can OC withstand decon/claying contaminates cleaning-processes...
And, what is the appropiate OC curing time-period to wait, before performing such contaminates-cleaning, if one desires to do so?


IMO...Don't be so hard on your Autopian friend...the baggie-test just may not be the "appropiate-test" for testing OC!!




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Last edited by FUNX725; 06-20-2012 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:09 AM   #8
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

Ok.. I have a question.. What is this plastic bag test?

I have been detailing for around 5 to 7 years and have never had any other detailers to talk to about ideas and stuff until I found Autogeek. I think I have been doing very well since no complaints from customers, But I have found alot more info on here from other detailers. This forum is awesome
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:22 AM   #9
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

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Ok.. I have a question.. What is this plastic bag test?

I have been detailing for around 5 to 7 years and have never had any other detailers to talk to about ideas and stuff until I found Autogeek. I think I have been doing very well since no complaints from customers, But I have found alot more info on here from other detailers. This forum is awesome
Its where you stick your hand in a baggie and rub it against a freshly washed surface. If it feels gritty, then you need to clay

I've always just used my hand and have never had an issue. It all seems very silly to me
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:26 AM   #10
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Re: Plastic Bag Test - Do You Really Want To Know?

Ok.. Thanks Flash.. Thats what I was kinda thinking it might have been
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