A situation when a non-forced rotational DA's will correct BETTER than a Flex 3401....

[WRAPT C5Z06]

This would be the case ONLY when using surbuf pads. It's pretty simple if you think about it. With surbuf pads, you don't want to use pressure(the weight of the polisher). So, with forced rotation being a non-factor, the non-forced rotational DA's(G110v2, GG 6", PCXP) spin and oscillate FASTER than the Flex 3401, therefore, it will correct better. Get it? This may something that is already widely understood, I've just never seen it mentioned. Who would've ever thunk a DA could out-perform the 3401? Opinions?

FWIW, when pressure is needed, the 3401 would easily out-perform a traditional DA.

[Kevin Brown]

... Who would've ever thunk a DA could out-perform the 3401?...

FWIW, when pressure is needed, the 3401 would easily out-perform a traditional DA.

Yeah, right!!!!! Not easily... and not always true!

My old G110 will outspin a Flex XC 3401 VRG even under a load.
Not knocking a Flex or a Makita BO6040 or a Bosch 1250 DEVS or a Festool Rotex RO150FEQ.
A lot has to do with the pad type and compound... and dare I say it..... .... the method of application.

Just saying... don't BE knocking my random orbital... ... I know you're not.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Yeah, right!!!!! Not easily... and not always true!

I only said it to get a reaction out of you.

[sohail99]

Nice! Didn't know about that!

so correction is better with surbuff pads and traditional DAs?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Nice! Didn't know about that!

so correction is better with surbuff pads and traditional DAs?

When coupled with M105, Kevin Brown Method(priming pad), I'd say the potential with a traditional DA would be better considering more pressure is a non factor with surbufs. Maybe Kevin Brown can expand on this?

[sohail99]

Wow! nice!

I switched from LC CCS pads to hydro tech as the CCS pads were kinda like a hassle for the DA(as its too thick and becomes heavy when loaded with the product)

Now, I guess this will go in my cart next!

+ read a few reviews and 'how to' s on surbuff pads and many say that the correction is comparable to a rotary!

[Mister B]

With surbuf pads, you don't want to use pressure.

This may something that is already widely understood, I've just never seen it mentioned.

I don't think I have ever seen that mentioned before either. I did not know you did not need to use any pressure when using the surbuf pads.

So you basically just need the weight of the machine only when going over the paint?

[Mike Phillips]

You need more than just the weight of the machine.

If you take any of the 3 DA Polishers and just flutter them on the surface of your cars finish and by flutter I mean just hold them so it's just the weight of the machine you can actually see the pad stop rotating and even spin backwards.

As soon as you apply some pressure the pad starts rotating clockwise.

I demonstrated this at the last class in front of 30 people.


On page 2 of this thread,

Pictures & Comments from September 19th Detailing 102 Class

You see Charles working the G110v2 with a finishing pad and M205 and at one point having a problem maintaining pad rotation, this is where I took the polisher, placed it on the hood and turned it on either the 5 or 6 speed setting and then held it so the pad was perfectly flat but just fluttering over the surface, and the pad virtually stopped under power and just vibrated. No pressure at all on the buffing pad. Then it would sporadically spin backwards and then stop again and just vibrate.

As soon as I applied pressure to it... it would start to rotate in a consistent manner.

Charles working with the Meguiar's G110v2





So you need more than the weight of the machine, applying 'some' is necessary to get the pad to rotate consistently.


There's been occasions when someone posts to the forum or calls our Tech Line and states their pad won't rotate even with no pressure applied to the tool. Soon as I read or hear that I instantly know what they're talking about and the problem isn't with the tool, it's a Newbie issue of being scared to apply pressure to the machine.

If I get them on the phone or in a thread I tell them to put at least 5 pounds of pressure to the head of the unit and the pad will start rotating. They go out into their garage, do this and Shazam! The issue, they thought was a problem, is now gone...

So just the weight of the machine isn't going to work, you need to apply some level of pressure.

Different abrasives react differently with DA Polishers and pad combinations and there's always new technology being introduced so even the way we do things today could change tomorrow. That's why it's always important to be open to new ideas, new products and new procedures.

[sharpcard]

If I understand it right the flex operates at 3200 - 9600 rpm (orbit rate) and the PC at 2500 - 6800 rpm (orbit rate). How would the PC be faster?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

You need more than just the weight of the machine.

If you take any of the 3 DA Polishers and just flutter them on the surface of your cars finish and by flutter I mean just hold them so it's just the weight of the machine you can actually see the pad stop rotating and even spin backwards.

As soon as you apply some pressure the pad starts rotating clockwise.

I demonstrated this at the last class in front of 30 people.


On page 2 of this thread,

Pictures & Comments from September 19th Detailing 102 Class

You see Charles working the G110v2 with a finishing pad and M205 and at one point having a problem maintaining pad rotation, this is where I took the polisher, placed it on the hood and turned it on either the 5 or 6 speed setting and then held it so the pad was perfectly flat but just fluttering over the surface, and the pad virtually stopped under power and just vibrated. No pressure at all on the buffing pad. Then it would sporadically spin backwards and then stop again and just vibrate.

As soon as I applied pressure to it... it would start to rotate in a consistent manner.

Charles working with the Meguiar's G110v2





So you need more than the weight of the machine, applying 'some' is necessary to get the pad to rotate consistently.


There's been occasions when someone posts to the forum or calls our Tech Line and states their pad won't rotate even with no pressure applied to the tool. Soon as I read or hear that I instantly know what they're talking about and the problem isn't with the tool, it's a Newbie issue of being scared to apply pressure to the machine.

If I get them on the phone or in a thread I tell them to put at least 5 pounds of pressure to the head of the unit and the pad will start rotating. They go out into their garage, do this and Shazam! The issue, they thought was a problem, is now gone...

So just the weight of the machine isn't going to work, you need to apply some level of pressure.

Different abrasives react differently with DA Polishers and pad combinations and there's always new technology being introduced so even the way we do things today could change tomorrow. That's why it's always important to be open to new ideas, new products and new procedures.

Hey Mike,

I'm just referring to the surbuf pads. With surbuf pads, you want the micro-fingers to be upright as possible. If the micro-fingers bend to much, you'll lose cut and have excess micro-marring. So, when I say weight of the polisher, there's still 5-6 ponds of pressure being applied which seems to work with surbuf pads.