Waxing after fresh paint

[tdekany]

I post this to help out the ones who asked. You can use HD POXY on fresh paint.

[Mike Phillips]

I post this to help out the ones who asked. You can use HD POXY on fresh paint.

Description for the product says it's hybrid paint sealant/wax

What paint manufacturers state about thier product is to not SEAL the surface of fresh paint for at least 30 days and sometimes longer.

I don't think sealing catalized clearcoats will cause them to fail if you seal them too soon but the product you recommended goes against what the manufacturer states.

Here's my article on this topic,


Don't wax your car for at least 30 days!

• Have you ever been told not to wax your car for at least 30 days by a painter after having the car painted?

• Perhaps someone has said not to wax or seal the paint because the paint needs to breathe?

• Or have you read a thread about this topic on a discussion forum?

Let me see if I can explain what this means and why people are told this...

The reason painters tell you not to wax fresh paint is for two reasons which are connected...

First, there's not a single paint manufacture that I know of that recommends sealing, (that means applying a substance that coats over and protects), fresh paint. This is where you'll find people that will argue with you but unless they work for the paint manufacture, then what they post is their opinion, not an official recommendation of a "Paint Manufacture".


Second, painters will tend to follow paint manufacturer's recommendations because they respect the paint manufacture but also to insure you don't mess up their work. The idea behind NOT sealing fresh paint is to let it outgas completely. This is where some will argue that modern paints harden through chemically curing or catalyzing, and not via solvent evaporation. But again, if the person making the recommendation does not work for the paint manufacture, then what they post is their opinion, not an official recommendation.

The clear layer of paint is still mixed with solvents, also called reducers; these are used to custom thin the paint to the painter's preference, to the sprayer and to the climate and/or paint booth. After spraying, some of these solvents will evaporate off.

After the solvents evaporate off and the paint dries to dust-free or tack-free, that is the surface of the paint is now cured and/or hard enough that if air-borne dust lands on the paint it won't stick to the paint.

After another day or two, maybe longer depending upon the shops normal practices, the paint can be sanded and buffed if that's part of the package.

Whether it's sanded and buffed or turned back over to the painter, at this point the painter will say something like,

"Wait 30 days before applying a car wax"

He might even say,

"You need to wait 30 days before applying a coat of wax to allow the paint to breathe"


This is a generic way of saying,

"Wait 30 days before using any product that can seal the paint to prevent or hinder any and all solvents to outgas or evaporate out of an off of the paint"


Now this is where some people on discussion forums will want to start to argue and say you can apply brand X because it's not a wax, or you can use anything because the paint is chemically cured, or you can wax the paint because you can't seal a clear coat, or fill in the blank...


What the painter really means...
The bigger idea the painter is trying to get across is to not apply any substance that creates a barrier coating over the surface that could "potentially" lock or seal in the solvents and prevent them from out-gassing or evaporating.


This gets into a discussion about what's "Body Shop Safe" and what's not "Body Shop Safe", and to some level, you an use the term "Body Shop Safe" to also describe "Fresh Paint Safe".


Products that are "Fresh Paint Safe" are also "Body Shop Safe" and that's because these product won't contain any ingredients that will cause "Surface Tension" which will usually show up as "Fish Eyes" in the paint.

Most, if not all waxes and paint sealants, and also most spray or quick detailers are NOT body shop safe and thus would not be safe for fresh paint according to the paint manufacturer's recommendation or their painter's recommendation.

Basically, if a product is known for, or famous for making water bead on car paint, (that thing we all love to see), then if the ingredients in the product that are responsible for making water bead would also try to make fresh paint sprayed onto a car try to bead only this would show up as fish eyes.


From a "purist" point of view, that is a person that is in a position to not have to seal the paint for approximately 30 days, then waiting simply insures that if there are any ingredients at all that could evaporate or outgas then this person can play it safe and allow the paint to fully dry and cure for the 30 days or longer.

Some people don't have this option and will be putting their car back into service they day they get it back and will want to apply something to the paint to protect it.

Outgassing is the process by which solvents and other substances used to mix the paint try to leave the paint is the reason behind why painters will often say,

"Don't wax your car for 30 days"

Sometimes this is just an insurance policy on the part of the painter because he knows his paint is durable and will last a long time with nothing applied to the paint and since they don't know you, your background, your skill level etc., let along what you have out in the garage that you might spread over their brand new work of art, they will error on the side of caution and again, tell you...

"Don't wax your car for 30 days"


Make sense?


After posting this some people will chime in and argue one of the above points and/or say they used this product or some other product on their "fresh paint" and nothing bad ever happened.

So I will point out, I never posted my opinion or recommendation in the above, I just explained in detail what's going on and why historically you're told not to wax your car's fresh paint and how that relates to other products that are not called car waxes specifically, but would have the potential to do the same thing a car wax would do if they were applied to fresh paint.

Make sense?


Polishing Fresh Paint Just for Fun
If you want to "do something" to your car's paint because you're excited to finally have your car painted and it's killing you to not go out into your garage and play with your toy, then you can apply a body shop safe, or fresh paint safe polish or glaze. These would typically be products created for and marketed towards body shops in the refinishing industry. You want to be careful because the words polish and glaze are used on a lot of products and in the context of what I'm talking about here, I mean non-abrasive polishes made for the sole purpose of creating gloss and clarity when used correctly and masking swirls if the shop in question makes it a practice to inflict swirls and then mask them in order to make the paint look good to get the customer to accept their work.


Two very popular non-abrasive polishes for fresh paint that are for the primary purpose of just making fresh paint look clear and glossy are 3M's Imperial Hand Glaze and Meguiars Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze.

[tdekany]

Morning Mike - If Tunch says his product is safe on fresh paint, I tend to believe the guy. Another product (not sure if still available) is FK1 2180? (the blue colored sealant?). It was also fine on freshly painted surfaces. In fact, I used 2180 8 years ago on a fresh repaint. I still have the car, and thought many to detail using that car. No sign of issues what so ever.

[Mike Phillips]

Morning Mike - If Tunch says his product is safe on fresh paint, I tend to believe the guy.

Every time I write on this topic I always write it from the perspective of the company that actually makes the paint.... not someone that makes something to put on the paint.

I addressed the topic you brought up in my article too, both sides of the topic, that is paint manufactures say DON'T seal their paint with a product like HD Poxy because it SEALS paint and the other side is the point I make about old school paints and modern catalyzed paints.


My article really explain it all. Everything. Everything you just posted above, what Tunch says, what the people that make paint say. Everything. It's very thorough.

I guess people can read it or scan it and then do what they want but I actually covered the part about guys on forums recommending waxes for fresh paint, (that would be your post), so I covered everything in the article.




I always ask the same question.... what's the hurry? That is, what's the hurry to hurry up and seal fresh paint?

30 days goes by fairly quickly. Most things that will land on the paint and harm it like a Bird Dropping Etching will harm it whether it's waxed or not. So what's the hurry?


Plus, if product you're recommending is safe for fresh paint that really means any wax/sealant hybrid, or any wax or any sealant is safe for fresh paint, (because they all do the same thing, the SEAL the paint), and this goes against what paint manufacturers state.

I tell people to read my article, think about it and then make their own decision. Take the recommendation of a forum member (someone that did not make the paint), or take the recommendation of the people that make the paint.

[tdekany]

So how do you explain my own experience Mike?

[Mike Phillips]

So how do you explain my own experience Mike?

I addressed this question in my article too.... here you go....

After posting this some people will chime in and argue one of the above points and/or say they used this product or some other product on their "fresh paint" and nothing bad ever happened.

So I will point out, I never posted my opinion or recommendation in the above, I just explained in detail what's going on and why historically you're told not to wax your car's fresh paint and how that relates to other products that are not called car waxes specifically, but would have the potential to do the same thing a car wax would do if they were applied to fresh paint.

I too have applied wax to fresh paint before 30 days air cure and I've never seen a modern catalyzed basecoat/clearcoat paint system fail if it was sealed too soon.

My article points out everything including...

What paint manufactures recommend, not what some guy on a forum recommends.



I'm not trying to argue with you Thomas, but for as long as I've been answering the question as to when is it safe to seal fresh paint there's ALWAYS been someone that posts it's perfectly safe to use such and such product to seal fresh paint.

Two things,

1. That's not what paint manufacturers recommend.

2. It's always someone that doesn't own the car with fresh paint telling the owner of the car with fresh paint to seal it before 30 days. I don't know why, that's just what I've seen for the past 20 years on the Internet.


Like I said, I've never seen a catalyzed basecoat/clearcoat paint system fail because it was seal to soon but I'm not going to change what my article states about this topic.