Confused about Fillers

[Jossy92]

I have heard only bad things about fillers: That the purpose is to hide things from a customer. However, there has got to be a reason(purpose) why a professional detailer would choose that product as the best tool for the job. (Like an old classic car with original paint, but where there are certain spots where the paint is too thin to level?)

Also, is a pure glaze a filler? I read it was, because it fills the pores with oil. If paint is like dead skin when magnified, why is that bad.

Also, if I take a very mild cleaner that has a clear carrier and let it dry before buffing off, Wouldn't this be good if the paint residue in the crack now raises the bottom of the crack so I don't have to level the paint as much.

I just seems like a glaze is only a bad thing if you don't know when to use it. Like everything else here.....

OR, (To beat a dead horse), the paint isn't there for a master detailer to practice removing swirls, he/she is there to do the best thing for the paint over the long haul.

OR, (To shoot the dead horse)I don't know what a filler is for in terms of concourse detailing, but that purpose isn't for cheating and I sure would appreciate learning what that purpose is.

OR, (Hey that's a really nice looking dead horse)......

Kind of feel stupid, so I only want post this question once, and not sure how to ask. However, when I get the right answer, I will know what the question is and share it.

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

There's a lot of confusion over the word fillers as it means different things to different people, kind of like the word polish.

There are ingredients meant to actually deposit themselves in an effort to fill-in defects

There are ingredients meant to lubricate the surface so the abrasives don't simply scratch the paint.

My guess is most people don't delineate between the two? Or don't know if there's a difference and if there is what it means. I also think that sometimes online enthusiasts get so AR when discussing a topic to death they forget the goal as it relates to polishing paint and that's to make it look good.

So while water is a lubricant that won't fill, it's also not as slippery as a polishing oil. A polishing oil can fill but that doesn't mean that's how it's intended to be used or how it is being used regardless of original intent.

It's this losing sight of the original goal where the topic tends to go astray. I always tell people to find something they like and use it.

I'll let other's chime in...

[Jossy92]

One last time:

I have a well cared for 88 Civic with 260K on it.

The paint on the hood has 22 years of scratches on it. I don't have cc failure, but, I used a very mild cleaner which left a few scratches and the old scratches appear to be under the CC.

I have kept it well nourished, but am afraid to correct the paint. I think the term for the paint would be "delicate".

Would like to make it last and make it look better, if possible.

I guess my confusion is that I assumed I needed a filler. (I was just trying to focus this question on a single product and not waste a lot of time.)

Also, this question may be too specific, and the post might be more suitable for Detailing 101 as not too many members have 22 year old cars.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

You don't need a filler.

Originally Posted by Jossy92

One last time:

Sorry for the delay in answering and sorry for any confusion on my part, usually when people bring up the word "filler" it's over the concerns of ONLY filling in defects when what they want is to REMOVE the defects, not simply fill them in.

Originally Posted by Jossy92

I have a well cared for 88 Civic with 260K on it.


The paint on the hood has 22 years of scratches on it.

22 years old with lots of scratches? How did they get into the well cared for car?

Did you buy it new?
Has the hood been repainted?

Originally Posted by Jossy92

I don't have cc failure,

That's good because there's no way to fix clearcoat failure except to repaint the car or the affected area.

Originally Posted by Jossy92

but, I used a very mild cleaner which left a few scratches and the old scratches appear to be under the CC.

If it's leaving scratches it's not mild and you should stop using it as there are products that will remove defects without also instilling scratches at the same time.

If there are scratches UNDER the clear then the hood has been repainted and the work done was sub-par. There's also no way to remove them without removing the clear coat and at this point we're talking about having the hood or the car repainted only this time having someone do it right the second time.

Originally Posted by Jossy92

I have kept it well nourished, but am afraid to correct the paint. I think the term for the paint would be "delicate".

Nourished? What have been applying for 22 years that nourishes the paint but it's still all scratched up?

Originally Posted by Jossy92

Would like to make it last and make it look better, if possible.

It's real possible to make it look better, that would mean make the clear coat more clear so you can see the color underneath of it. It may not be possible to remove all the scratches. Even if you don't remove all the scratches, making the paint more clear will make it look better even with all the scratches.

Originally Posted by Jossy92

I guess my confusion is that I assumed I needed a filler. (I was just trying to focus this question on a single product and not waste a lot of time.)

Again, sorry for any confusion but you don't want a filler. IF you just want one product that will make the paint look better and not waste a lot of time, i.e. doing multiple steps then you want a one-step cleaner wax.

Get a bottle of ColorX. Wash the car and then clay the paint if it feels rough to the touch after you wash and dry the paint.

Take the ColorX and work a section about 16" to 18" squarish using a foam or microfiber applicator pad. I'm assuming you're doing your work by hand?

Allow the wax to dry and then wipe it off. While it's drying you can move onto a new section, again keep it small, you can't effective work a cleaner/wax to a clear coat finish and tackle a large area. Be sure to overlap into the previous section so you have a uniform appearance after you're all done.

Originally Posted by Jossy92

Also, this question may be too specific, and the post might be more suitable for Detailing 101 as not too many members have 22 year old cars.

I've only owned old cars and have worked on tons of old cars with paint in horrible condition.

Again, sorry for any delay in getting back to you, just got out of a meeting. Also sorry for any confusion on my part as to your questions about a "filler".

Post it here or in Detailing 101 but my answer will be the same.

If you just want to make the paint look better and only want to do one step besides washing and claying, then you want a one-step cleaner/wax and it sounds like you need a strong one step cleaner/wax which is what ColorX is.

If you want to remove SURFACE scratches then you could would have to do more steps. That could include,

Wash
Clay if needed
Rub paint out using a compound like Ultimate Compound
Polish paint with something like SwirlX
Then apply a wax.

Rubbing clear coats by hand is very time-consuming and a tad on the hard side because clear coat paints tend to be hard, that means it's going to be difficult to remove a little paint in the correction step which is where you remove the scratches.


Hope that helps...

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

Give me about an hour, I found an extremely scratched-up Saturn in the parking lot and the owner is going to let me do two spots on the hood.

• One spot with just ColorX
• One spot with Ultimate Compound, SwirlX and a wax

Then I'll show you the difference with pictures.

Hang tight...

[acc1079]

LOL, I can see Mike out scavenging next door businesses for scratched up cars.

"Sir, your car is scratched up.... can I borrow it for a little while?"

Little do they know.... that is the best luck their paint has had since it was applied at the factory.

[67Customs]

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

Give me about an hour, I found an extremely scratched-up Saturn in the parking lot and the owner is going to let me do two spots on the hood.

• One spot with just ColorX
• One spot with Ultimate Compound, SwirlX and a wax

Then I'll show you the difference with pictures.

Hang tight...

Priceless! lol

This is why you fit right into the Autogeek Staff, Mike. You go out of your way to help someone.

[Mike.Phillips@Autogeek]

Okay, the write-up is done, here's the link,


1-Step versus 3-Step Process by Hand


I'm going to try upload a couple of videos I took, I'm a newbie to the iphone and definitely a newbie to uploading videos to YouTube... so bear with me...

[cooksnj]

that is very funny. i wish i was there.

and as funny as this is, "bo duke style" and all. another great, & fast, job by mike to help us all out. very informative and i thank you for taking the time to show us first hand the diff.

now i'm gonna go get some compound.

[Jossy92]

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

Sorry for the delay in answering and sorry for any confusion on my part

Please don't apologize, sometimes intention doesn't come over the internet (especially with my dry humor) and my intent in my second post was to help you help me (and any others will similar problems) by rephrasing my question.

I guess my question was what do I do when I am not sure if the defect to my original paind is damage to the clear coat versus separation of the base coat from the primer coat: May be just be an illusion. I am afraid to get aggressive.

You are the real deal Mike, you genuinely want to help people and it's appreciated it. You have set a standard that only comes from "treating other peoples cars like they were you own....you can't fake that.)

more when I figure out how to do a multiquote.............